"Beat me on the bottom with a Woman's Weekly": All things Victoria Wood

[Mel O'Drama]

dinnerladies



Series One

(November-December 1998)

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Even though I watched the entire series less than a year ago, it had to be done. I wanted to see how it plays in context of Vic’s works chronologically.

I won’t say much about the series as I posted in some detail in The Great British Sitcom thread last year. But it is interesting to see how the canteen setting, the dynamics between the colleagues and some of the characterisations are similar to some of those in Pat and Margaret.

It also feels very much like quality. Everything looks so polished and finished. The opening titles lure me right in and feel paradoxically both inconspicuous and iconic. Much like the series itself, which is made up of intimate, prosaic little half an hours, but performed by a cast of hugely impressive pedigree, and some incredible guest stars. As before, Dolly is the standout for me. The sparring between Dolly and Jean always guaranteed to crease me up. Thelma Barlow and Anne Reid seem to be having great fun with it.


This time round I’ve also spotted more faces from earlier Vic work. Such as Norman the bread delivery man, played by Andrew Livingston who was previously Carl the bus stop boy in As Seen On TV.

For some reason I always think the series is going to be a heavier or more difficult watch than it actually is. I’ve flown through these first six episodes far too easily and am craving more.

I’ve also stumbled upon this nice performance of the theme with vocals:

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[Barbara Fan]

i always enjoyed dinnerladies, and agree Jean and Dolly were the standouts - also liked when the husbands showed up and jeans husband being poignant and nostalgic but he only wanted his wall papering table back!!

Loved to see Thora Hird and Eric Sykes in it and also Sturgeon Look a likie Jimmy wee Krankie (sorry Jimmy for the slur)

The only epiosde i didnt like was the Anita and baby one, but it still had some one off great lines

Also you may like to know that Mr Tashimoto from Party - or whatever he was called was one of the sadistic Japanese guards Lt Sato in Tenko.

I watched a bit of Corrie for 1st time in ages and all i could think of when I saw Sue Devannny (Kevs sister) - was 12 rounds of toast, low fat spread!!

I didnt realise until recently that they filmed it twice and VW often was up all night rewriting scripts - Havent got to dinnerladies in her bio yet, still in mid 80s!

PS This is Vics daughter GRace

I think her mother would be proud

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Loved to see Thora Hird and Eric Sykes in it

Yes. Thora's appearance made perfect sense considering she'd been such a knockout in Vic's last film.

And Dora Bryan being her usual ditzy-but-oversexed Dora Bryan character reminded me very much of her role in As Seen On TV where she'd also played Anne Reid's Mum.

Also you may like to know that Mr Tashimoto from Party - or whatever he was called was one of the sadistic Japanese guards Lt Sato in Tenko.

Oh wow. I hadn't spotted that. I have visions of him crying "No more Hokey Cokey" as he's chased by Julie Walters.

I watched a bit of Corrie for 1st time in ages and all i could think of when I saw Sue Devannny (Kevs sister) - was 12 rounds of toast, low fat spread!!

Ha ha. And asking "Could you spread them for Tony?"

Funny to think she's back in Corrie. I've often wondered why she wasn't brought back now and then with Kevin still being there.

I always remember her as Johnny Briggs's stroppy older sister as well.

I didnt realise until recently that they filmed it twice

That rings a bit of a bell, but I can't remember where I read it. Probably last year when I was watching.

Havent got to dinnerladies in her bio yet, still in mid 80s!

I'd love to know any titbits when you get to it.

PS This is Vics daughter GRace

I think her mother would be proud

Gosh. She's really talented, and I can see the resemblance to both her Mum and Dad. You're right, Vic would be very proud indeed.

 

[Barbara Fan]

I'd love to know any titbits when you get to it.

Little titbits include that her grandmother played Bridge with the formidable Violet Carson aka Ena Sharples
I think VW father wrote epiosdes of Corrie and for broadcaster Wilfred Pickles

(Pity she didnt to bring back some northern humour to the show )

Her parents seem a little odd and her mother was a member of the Young communists when young

- and almost left the children to bring up themselves, VW retreated to her room after dinner and their didnt seem to be too much love in the family
Her parents also moved to a very ramshackle house that was falling down!!

 

[Karin Schill]

This is a very catchy thread title that has sparked my curiosity. As someone who had never heard of Victoria Wood before I am wondering @Mel O'Drama what is the backstory to the quote in the thread title?

 

[Mel O'Drama]

This is a very catchy thread title that has sparked my curiosity. As someone who had never heard of Victoria Wood before I am wondering @Mel O'Drama what is the backstory to the quote in the thread title?

Glad you like the title, @Karin Schill.

Victoria Wood was a very talented British comedienne, screenwriter and actress. She's done some wonderful TV series, films and live stand-up shows. She could do comedy and also very poignant human stuff. She's known for her work with Julie Walters (whose name will probably be more familiar to you). Over thirty years together, she created some of Julie's most iconic roles, including writing Julie's first few feature films especially for her. Sadly, Victoria died of cancer in 2016 aged just 62.

Victoria wrote great songs which were part of her live routines, sketch shows and some films. Some are moving, some are funny, and she usually included a lot of uniquely British phrases and references (as she also did in her scripted dialogue).

The thread title is taken from her most famous song, The Ballad Of Barry And Freda (also known as Let's Do It). In the song, Freda is feeling romantic and makes several saucy suggestions to her partner Barry. But Barry's not in the mood and he comes back with lots of reasons not to oblige.

Here are the song lyrics.

And here's Victoria performing the song.

Enjoy!



By the way, the Woman's Weekly referenced in the song is a long-running lifestyle magazine in the UK, aimed at older women. It has a reputation for being very twee, genteel and respectable. Lots of knitting patterns, craft ideas and recipes, that kind of thing. Here's a typical cover from the year this song was first performed:

 

[Mel O'Drama]

dinnerladies


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Series Two, Part One​

(November-December 1999)​

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It’s struck me that this series marks the twentieth anniversary of Talent. Two decades on and Vic’s still writing up a storm and brilliantly presenting it with Julie Walters and a host of quality character actors.

We’re also ten years on from the Victoria Wood series of stories (Mens Sana, etc), which I still think of as being new. The fact that both series feel contemporaneous has reminded me how timeless Vic’s series tend to be. This is very much the case with dinnerladies. The uniforms, the limited setting and the lack of location work all serve to make it quite difficult to date visually. Another reason why it stands up there as a classic that’s as accessible today as it ever was.

Thankfully there are no big changes to the dynamics. All the main cast are back with no significant changes other than Bren’s shorter hairdo and Twinkle’s weight loss. In terms of supporting characters, the gang’s mostly all here, right down to Kate Robbins almost unrecognisable as the dour Babs. Norman the bread man’s been recast, but the series gets away with it.

While second series is more of the same, which is all to the good, there have been a couple of changes of emphasis.

The “will they/won’t they?” element of the romance between Bren and Tony feels far more heavy-handed this year. I’m not a fan of romantic stuff in general. In fictional character terms I can find romantic happiness quite nauseating. This angle was tolerable in the first series, but the second series is getting very close to that line. Not helping matters is that other characters have become a kind of Greek chorus, watching it play out and getting involved by placing bets about when they’re going to get it on and whatnot. And it feels like we as the audience are supposed to be on the same page. But I’m extremely resistant (perversely so, perhaps) and find myself getting irritated with it. And then there’s the other audience: the studio audience. On last year’s rewatch I remember that moment where Bren and Tony kissed and the audience gave out this big “ooooooooh” really annoying. It feels like watching a filmed pantomime. The audience’s engagement actually reduces my own, making me feel like I’m not part of something.





Something that I appreciate (to a point) is that Bren is written as flawed. Vic’s spoken of her strained relationship with her mother and a degree of isolation within her family of origin, and that comes across in this character. There’s something about Bren that provokes a fierce loyalty in and intense interest from other characters that can be quite unattractive. Case in point, all of the colleagues willing Bren to stand up to her mother’s request for money. They weren’t wrong, but there’s something about the way in which it was done that made them seem hard and almost cruel in their dogged determination to stop her from handing over her holiday money to Petula. The situation and the public way in which it was dealt with actually increased my empathy for Petula as a lonely woman, while my empathy for Bren wavered.

Bren’s choice of moment to hand over her money to Petula made complete sense. But I’d have felt more sympathy for her if everyone else hadn’t. She handed over the money when everyone was gathered round to watch her do it, thus garnering their sympathy/pity, which left me as a viewer feeling I didn’t need to invest as much of my own sympathy. It helped not that everyone was gathered to hear Stan’s beautifully simple eulogy to his father who had just died, but the beautiful moment then became about Poor Bren rather than Stan or his father who were more deserving of care at that moment in time.

This angle of Bren seizing upon others’ moments of drama or difficulty in order to have her own big moment was turbocharged in the first couple of Series Two episodes in which Vic wrote a couple of lengthy spiels for Bren as she cut someone down to size. In the first, she tore into Phillipa for mixing up a scheduling error. She did so very publicly and very loudly, in front of the entire assembled staff. And she evoked the ghost of Tony’s cancer as her trump card which served to protect her from any potential comeback.

In the second episode, Jean got it from Bren. Jean had invited it by being very nasty to everyone in grief over her husband leaving her. But again, Bren stepped in at the moment of highest drama and escalated it by tearing into Jean.

In both cases, the writing feels as though it’s leaning towards Bren being a hero. A speaker of truth who says what others are thinking. They feel true for her character, and echo of the “tuna ’n’ sweetcorn” moment in Series One where she gave a customer a piece of her mind for daring to ask if she could have her tuna and sweetcorn separately. It’s also very much a Victoria Wood-ism. There are shades, for example, of the way she spoke up to Pam in the Over To Pam episode of Victoria Wood.

Yet to me, each of these dinnerladies cases feels like they show someone who functions in a dysfunctional way. She defuses a situation by escalating the drama even more, moving herself right into the centre of it and very publicly shaming someone. She includes facts which make it difficult for the person to even attempt to defend themselves without making Bren a victim. And afterwards there is an atmosphere of uncomfortable stillness.

In each case, I found myself feeling protective towards the other character and liking Bren less.

So yes, Bren is a very flawed character to me. Others may see it differently, but I find Bren to be one of the least-likeable, most subtly self-centred characters she’s played. And yet she makes perfect sense because of how well written she is.

Now bearing in mind this is all Vic’s writing, it’s a complex situation and I applaud her for writing this character who I find at times unexpectedly challenging.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

dinnerladies


Series Two


(continued)​

Oh my - Vic was really on form with Minnellium episode (not a typo). It was hilarious line after hilarious line:

They've been linked with teenage alcoholism, Wine Gums. It was in the Daily Mail.

What a load of Friars' Balsam. I spent half me childhood eatin' liquorice bootlaces. I didn't end up as a bondage queen.

Shame, Jean. I could see you in a PVC catsuit.

It would 'ave to come from a big cat.

 

[Barbara Fan]

Kate Robbins almost unrecognisable as the dour Babs

I wanted to go on Matermind - but i couldnt sit on leather!!

Is it a sit down toilet?

One of the weakest links was Sue Cleaver as Glenda, some of her acting was shocking!!

I enjoyed the episode with Simon Williams (gosh he is tall!) and didnt the guy Steve who broke his ankle used to be in Corrie?

A highlight is always Julie Walters going into that bag for the funnel and that PINK blanket - not very pristine!!

 

[Mel O'Drama]

I wanted to go on Matermind - but i couldnt sit on leather!!

Is it a sit down toilet?

"Cause I can't use the other kind"

Speaking of Kate Robbins and Victoria Wood, this is absolutely brilliant:

One of the weakest links was Sue Cleaver as Glenda, some of her acting was shocking!!

She was quite broad, but I find her fine for the role she's got. The great actors in the cast seem to diffuse any poorer or less experienced actors.

I enjoyed the episode with Simon Williams (gosh he is tall!)

Him and his bacon sandwich. While his snooty wife looks down on everyone.

A highlight is always Julie Walters going into that bag for the funnel and that PINK blanket - not very pristine!!

And her line about Leonardo DiCaprio's "boxing glove" creases me up every time. Something about it being done in a really long shot to accommodate her huge gesture makes it even funnier.

 

[Alexis Colby Carrington]

Thank you posting the Kate Robbins video. It’s hilarious

 

[Karin Schill]

@Mel O'Drama thanks for sharing the video and explaining the thread title to me. It does make sense now!

The Woman's Weekly magazine looks a bit like the kind of magazines that my grandma used to read when I was a child. In Sweden there were two of them "Året Runt" and "Hemmets Journal." I think I still have an old number of an "Året Runt" that is all about knitting that my grandma had saved.

It's a pity Victoria Wood got sick and died prematurely. I am sure it's a great loss for British culture. Even though I am sure her legacy lives on.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Thank you posting the Kate Robbins video. It’s hilarious

It's brilliant, isn't it? Kate has such an eye and ear for detail, with all the little facial expressions and the accent. I love the way she sings "The man with the Midas tootch".

@Mel O'Drama thanks for sharing the video and explaining the thread title to me. It does make sense now!

My pleasure Karin. I'm always glad to share the joy.

The Woman's Weekly magazine looks a bit like the kind of magazines that my grandma used to read when I was a child. In Sweden there were two of them "Året Runt" and "Hemmets Journal." I think I still have an old number of an "Året Runt" that is all about knitting that my grandma had saved.

Yes, they do sound quite similar.

I couldn't resist looking it up, and this looks great fun:

It's a pity Victoria Wood got sick and died prematurely. I am sure it's a great loss for British culture. Even though I am sure her legacy lives on.

Yes, she's very sorely missed, but will be remembered for a long, long time.

 

[Karin Schill]

Oh yeah the cut out dolls that came with "Året Runt" were great. I used to play with those as a child. Not the Elizabeth Taylor doll though as that was before my time. But I do remember having the Dallas cut out dolls!
I wonder if they are still up in the attic or if we threw them out...

Then as for Victoria Wood she does strike me as a funny person who spread joy with her work. A real entertainer.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

I do remember having the Dallas cut out dolls!
I wonder if they are still up in the attic or if we threw them out...

Oh my. They had Dallas ones?! They might be worth a fortune if they're still in the attic.

Then as for Victoria Wood she does strike me as a funny person who spread joy with her work. A real entertainer.

Yes indeed. She's wonderful.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

dinnerladies




Series Two, Part Two​

(December 1999-January 2000)​

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The wrap up was perfect. I loved the attention to detail. Small details that seemed insignificant - or even possibly oversights - came back to be important. Like Anita's absence from Bren's birthday celebrations, which turned out to be crucial to the plot of the next episode. Then there was the build up to Totally Trivial, with casual mentions of it - and Bren's love of trivia - which were dropped into several episodes before the quiz. Then there was Stan’s cheap bran tub watch from Jean, which helped to give closure to Bren’s storyline.And I loved the fact that Petula asking Bren to dispose of a watch back in her very first scene of episode one came full circle at the very end (Petula’s death was the right balance of comedy and pathos).

The Viagra mix up remains one of the highlights of the entire series thanks to Thelma Barlow’s hilarious portrayal of her terror turning into fury. Once again the entire staff’s treatment of Christine made them come across as a cliquey lot of bitches. Difficult as Christine was, their treatment of her was unnecessarily harsh and cruel. But it rang with truth as well.

All in all, the series has been such a treat to watch - even so close to my last time round. It’s full of humour and heart, and up there with the very best of British sitcoms.

 

[Karin Schill]

Oh my. They had Dallas ones?! They might be worth a fortune if they're still in the attic.

Yes, JR, Sue Ellen, Pam, Bobby and Lucy. If you google "Klippdocka" and "Dallas" you should be able to find scanned photos of what they looked like.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Yes, JR, Sue Ellen, Pam, Bobby and Lucy. If you google "Klippdocka" and "Dallas" you should be able to find scanned photos of what they looked like.

I did, and they made me smile. Especially JR's patch of chest hair and his stars and stripes undies.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Victoria Wood With All The Trimmings





(25th December 2000)

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Last time I watched this, I believe, was over twenty years ago when it first aired. I remember because I can remember my surprise at seeing Anna Wing who at the back of my mind (like probably that of most of the general public) had died.

Anna’s brief cameo was one of many, many celebrity appearances. Indeed, the episode opened with an elaborate spy-themed sketch (complete with theme from The Ipcress File) in which Victoria’s fur-hatted Russian spy met none other than Roger Moore in a capsule of the London Eye.

Star-studded doesn’t even begin to sum up All The Trimmings. The cream of the crop includes Derek Jacobi, Imelda Staunton; Hugh Laurie, Penelope Wilton; James Bolam; Geraldine McEwan; Bob Monkhouse; Parky; and even Anna’s old EastEnders sparring partner June Brown.

At the other end of the celebrity spectrum there’s naff celebrity whore H from Steps. Mercifully, only the briefest of appearances but, being close to the beginning of the show it had me a bit worried.

In between are Vic’s reliable core team such as Celia Imrie and Susie Blake. Julie Walters presumably had a pretty full schedule She’s here, but not featured too heavily. Plus old Vic favourites Pete Postlethwaite, Anne Reid and Alan Rickman. Given the timing of this, it makes sense that the team would now include Andrew Dunn, Shobna Gulati, Maxine Peake and Kate Robbins. The women appear to be playing themselves, but the two younger ones speak and act very much like their dinnerladies characters so I’m assuming is heightened reality. Coming, as it did, immediately after that series, the actor continuity is appreciated and has helped reduce my dinnerladies withdrawal symptoms. Notably absent was Duncan Preston, who I kept expecting to pop up.

The sketches, ranging from Dickensian through World War II newsreels to the contemporary WI (a scathing satire of American drama ER, but set in a church hall where Women’s Institute members are under pressure to open on time and get the tea urn running) are all spot on.

It’s really good to see Vic given the budget and a time slot that she deserved. However, at times the big budget gloss and stunt casting start moving dangerously close to “style over substance” territory. It never crosses that line, but neither is it Vic’s funniest work.

One key theme in the series is the then-nascent reality show trend. The main plot in the ongoing storyline that links the sketches together concerns Vic’s rehearsal being hijacked by a reality show team. Vic also sends up Jane McDonald in The Cruise, which I’ve never seen but I suspect is highly accurate. The grand finale is a musical number in which Vic sends up Ann Widdecombe, which seems incredibly prescient given Widdecombe’s 21st century proclivity for rocking up on any reality, quiz or panel show that will indulge her.

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Things would later come full circle following Widdecombe’s disastrously awkward chairmanship of Have I Got News For You? Speaking in a broader discussion of that series, regular panellist Paul Merton later said this:

My worst experience was when Ann Widdecombe hosted it the second time… She comes on; she’s telling the producer what jokes will and won’t work. She turned to me at one point and said, ‘come on, be amusing. That’s what you’re being paid for...’

It’s like, the arrogance of the woman, you know? Suddenly she thought she was Victoria Wood!

 

[Barbara Fan]

The grand finale is a musical number in which Vic sends up Ann Widdecombe,

Anne widdecombe actually spoke highly of Victoria, as VW called her in adavance to ask her if it was ok to send her up and if she said no, she wasnt happy with it, it wouldnt have been shown

There arent many comdedians who would do that.

From Radio Times

Perhaps, though, the most telling contribution comes from Ann Widdecombe, about Wood’s 2000 paean, a full song-and-dance number, to the then Shadow Home Secretary. Remarkably and uniquely, Wood rang Widdecombe to see if she’d mind: “She took note of other people’s feelings.”