Brexit - The Disaster That Keeps On Disastering

Angela Channing

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And then there is this...

HOW THEY SOLD IT:

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HOW IT'S GOING:

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Source: Seb Dance on Twitter
It was all lies but the sad thing is many people in Briton knew that but didn't care. All they were concerned about was having fewer foreigners here and everything else was a price worth paying. Now we are beginning to see we can't cope without having EU citizens in our workforce forcing the government to issue visas to encourage EU workers to come here to help us out. The whole thing is a farce,
 

Biggie

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Thanks to everyone who voted for Brexit, we might soon be eating pesticides that have been banned by the EU. Brexit, has given us the freedom to poison ourselves.

You could choose to eat organic. I believe that the catch all term has a free from pesticides thingy going on. Grow your own produce or stop eating whatever the pesticides are used on.
 

Angela Channing

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You could choose to eat organic. I believe that the catch all term has a free from pesticides thingy going on. Grow your own produce or stop eating whatever the pesticides are used on.
Organic food is more expensive and so is not an option for everyone. Maybe people who voted for Brexit should pay more to compensate the food bills of those who didn't vote to have our food poisoned with pesticides.
 

Brian Kinney

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You could choose to eat organic. I believe that the catch all term has a free from pesticides thingy going on. Grow your own produce or stop eating whatever the pesticides are used on.
Of course you can choose... if you can read the fine-print on the products. I look at the products very closely to read what is important to me. Takes a while but it's okay because I'm single an in early-retirement - doesn't stress me, I have enough time and shop early 7-8 in the morning in an empty supermarket. How about people who come after work or parents with kids - how much time do they have to focus on reading the stuff? Consumers have the right to buy decent food without spending half their time reading about risks. This should be clear as clean water from a tap.

There are warning signs and shock images on cigarette packs - nicotine and alcohol are sold only to adults. Does anyone believe the corrupt American agriculture lobby groups care about that? Just keep in mind how in other cases their lobby groups were suing for decades to further sell poison (tobacco industry or the opioid crisis which is a result of the wrongdoings from pharma lobbyists). Or if the UK government agrees to sell such food: Will they actually demand that vegetable is sold only to adults and with shocking pictures on it? I don't think they declare the poison as what it is but I'm not the slightest surprised that the unethical American capitalism tries to attack the European market and if I were one of their lobbyists the British market would be my first target too - thanks to the Tories it's easier than selling weed to Snoop Dogg.
 
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Biggie

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Of course you can choose... if you can read the fine-print on the products. I look at the products very closely to read what is important to me. Takes a while but it's okay because I'm single an in early-retirement - doesn't stress me, I have enough time and shop early 7-8 in the morning in an empty supermarket. How about people who come after work or parents with kids - how much time do they have to focus on reading the stuff? Consumers have the right to buy decent food without spending half their time reading about risks. This should be clear as clean water from a tap.

There are warning signs and shock images on cigarette packs - nicotine and alcohol are sold only to adults. Does anyone believe the corrupt American agriculture lobby groups care about that? Just keep in mind how in other cases their lobby groups were suing for decades to further sell poison (tobacco industry or the opioid crisis which is a result of the wrongdoings from pharma lobbyists). Or if the UK government agrees to sell such food: Will they actually demand that vegetable is sold only to adults and with shocking pictures on it? I don't think they declare the poison as what it is but I'm not the slightest surprised that the unethical American capitalism tries to attack the European market and if I were one of their lobbyists the British market would be my first target too - thanks to the Tories it's easier than selling weed to Snoop Dogg.
I seldom read the product information on food items I buy. But I am aware that the food industry as a whole employ practices that might raise some eyebrows but are within regulations. But I really don't believe that the agriculture sector or any other sector is going out of their way to poison their customers. Pesticides, keeping in mind I'm not a farmer or agricultural engineer, probably do more good in terms of crop yield and affordability than do harm. Of course there will always be people that will be adversely affected directly or indirectly by there use, but I'm suggesting more people benefit.

Poor air quality is probably a greater danger to the many.
 

Jock Ewing Fan

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Not being a British citizen, I don't know all the ramifications of Brexit, other than the the broad descriptions from the
mainstream media coverage.

I want to make it clear that I am neither a supporter or a detractor of Brexit - that is for the people of the nation involved to decide.
I am more of an observer.

One of the most frequent factors in the vote that has been reported by the media is an economic one -
that working class people and some middle class people feel that they have been harmed by elitists
and globalization, while the aforementioned working/middle class people have been ignored and
have suffered financially.

Again, I want to make it clear that I am not taking sides. I do think if the Brexit debate is going to be revisited,
the grievances of the people need to be addressed.
 

Angela Channing

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One of the most frequent factors in the vote that has been reported by the media is an economic one -
that working class people and some middle class people feel that they have been harmed by elitists
and globalization, while the aforementioned working/middle class people have been ignored and
have suffered financially.
This is one of the lies that people were told to get them to vote for Brexit.

The EU spends a fifth of its budget on regional development which is support for universities, roads, businesses, banks and more and large sums of EU money went to the most deprived areas of the UK, something which the UK government hasn't matched since we left the EU. However since Brexit. the UK government has found money to cut corporation tax and the highest level of income tax. I would argue that Brexit has harmed working class people economically far more than high earners and "elites". The UK economy has gone down the toilet and that has a greater impact of lower paid workers who have also lost many of their rights as workers since we left the EU.

The reality is that Brexit has benefitted the "elites" at the expense of working class people.

 

9unfold

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The reality is that Brexit has benefitted the "elites" at the expense of working class people
In the years to come I have a feeling that the UK be less prosperous outside the EU.

The xenophobia and misinformation whipped up by profitaring parties and some truly sinister figures was a constant. Drip drip drip around the clock until the lies become the accepted truth .

Other areas around the world are in alliances working together on numerous areas of common interests. That was the EU.

Now I appears that the heralded benefits of leaving the EU are empty shelves and queues for petrol.
 

Angela Channing

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In the years to come I have a feeling that the UK be less prosperous outside the EU.
It's already happening. The UK government's own figures from the Office of Budget Responsibility has calculated that Brexit will cause a 4% long-term reduction to the UK’s GDP which is equivalent to £80 billion a year. Because of Brexit, the UK is getting poorer every year.

 

9unfold

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It's already happening. The UK government's own figures from the Office of Budget Responsibility has calculated that Brexit will cause a 4% long-term reduction to the UK’s GDP which is equivalent to £80 billion a year. Because of Brexit, the UK is getting poorer every year.

From my first hand experiences I've noticed that many pro-Brexit people never really comprehended how the EU worked and how membership worked.

I can't claim to be an authority, but I tried to remain informed. That said, the Bureaucracy of the EU could Be daunting and appear nonsensical and difficult to follow. The naysayers exploited this by misrepresenting the facts in easy to digest sound bites.

The work of government is long winded, slow paced, and often complex. The work of government is, including the EU is open to public scrutiny if one wishes to read the weighty proposed legislation bill written in unambiguous legalistic jargon. Some people do but most don't. They just recoil at the apocryphal headlines.

I've noticed that many people believe that they know how government, the judicial system, the EU, medical services, taxation, business and everything else works because of the snippets and zhuzhed up headlines. My experiences.
 
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Angela Channing

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P&O Ferries have sacked their entire workforce with immediate effect and will replace them with cheaper agency staff. Had the UK remained within the EU, European employment law would have prevented P&O from treated it's workforce so badly. P&O have said they need to take this approach because the company is losing money however, they still can find the cash to be a major donor of the Conservative Party.

Brexit again screws the average worker and the beneficiaries are the rich and powerful.
 

Mel O'Drama

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Johnson has now likened Ukranians' fight to save their homeland from devastation (and become part of the EU) to the UK's vote to leave the EU.

It's so incredibly ugly. No wonder there's been such a backlash.

Ed Davey said:
He is no Churchill: he is Basil Fawlty.
 

Angela Channing

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Johnson has now likened Ukranians' fight to save their homeland from devastation (and become part of the EU) to the UK's vote to leave the EU.

It's so incredibly ugly. No wonder there's been such a backlash.

The only connection between Brexit and the Russian invasion of Ukraine is that Putin paid for both of them.

The night when the invasion took place, Johnson was partying with a Lubov Chernukhin, the wife of a former Russian deputy finance minister and a close ally of Putin's. She has donated £2 million to the Tory Party since 2012. Putin's allies have effectively bought the Tory Party and this should be a national scandal.
 

Englishboy

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P&O Ferries have sacked their entire workforce with immediate effect and will replace them with cheaper agency staff. Had the UK remained within the EU, European employment law would have prevented P&O from treated it's workforce so badly. P&O have said they need to take this approach because the company is losing money however, they still can find the cash to be a major donor of the Conservative Party.

Brexit again screws the average worker and the beneficiaries are the rich and powerful.
If European employment law is so great how come British companies were allowed to employ people on zero hours contracts and such like long before we’d even left the European Union ?

Also, isn’t it the case that P & O’s actions are potentially in breach of UK employment law anyway?

As for Ed Davey’s “Basil Fawlty” comments, is this the same Ed Davey whose party jumped in to bed with David Cameron and the Tory party and enabled Tory austerity cuts in the 2010s?

It doesn’t matter how they try to slice it, a vote for the Lib Dem’s is a vote for the Tories via the back door!
 

Angela Channing

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If European employment law is so great how come British companies were allowed to employ people on zero hours contracts and such like long before we’d even left the European Union ?

Also, isn’t it the case that P & O’s actions are potentially in breach of UK employment law anyway?

As for Ed Davey’s “Basil Fawlty” comments, is this the same Ed Davey whose party jumped in to bed with David Cameron and the Tory party and enabled Tory austerity cuts in the 2010s?

It doesn’t matter how they try to slice it, a vote for the Lib Dem’s is a vote for the Tories via the back door!
Brexit was sold to the public as a way of protecting British jobs and to stop those nasty Europeans from driving down wages. P&O have shown that was a lie.

European employment law was never meant to cover all aspects of workers rights, it just establishes a minimum level of standards across the EU. The fact that we have been allowed to have zero hour contracts in the UK again shows the dishonesty of the Brexit argument. National governments were always allowed to set many employment conditions and not have them all imposed from Brussels in the way that liars like Farage and Johnson told everyone.

As for the LibDems, had they not gone into government with the Tories, we might never have had Brexit. They are complicit in this disaster.
 
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Angela Channing

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It’s now been confirmed that P & O’s failure to consult the unions over the large scale redundancies did indeed contravene UK employment law.

Let's see the prosecutions and convictions. Instead of explaining their actions to Parliament, these people should be explaining their actions to the police.
 

Englishboy

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But the point is @Angela Channing you said that P & O wouldn’t have been able to act in this shameful way if we were still in the EU as those affected would be protected by E U employment legislation when in fact those affected are actually protected by UK law anyway.

It’s just that P & O elected to ignore that legislation.

So, what’s to say that they wouldn’t have ignored E U employment law in precisely the same way if we were still in the E U.

More generally, any E U employment legislation that allows for companies in member countries to employ people on zero hours contracts is not worth the paper it’s not written on in my opinion.
 

Angela Channing

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But the point is @Angela Channing you said that P & O wouldn’t have been able to act in this shameful way if we were still in the EU as those affected would be protected by E U employment legislation when in fact those affected are actually protected by UK law anyway.

It’s just that P & O elected to ignore that legislation.

So, what’s to say that they wouldn’t have ignored E U employment law in precisely the same way if we were still in the E U.

More generally, any E U employment legislation that allows for companies in member countries to employ people on zero hours contracts is not worth the paper it’s not written on in my opinion.
Fair point but P&O are likely to have thought they were more likely to get away with their actions when dealing with a favourable Tory Government than defending their actions under European law. The test is whether the Department of Transport will take out a prosecution against P&O which is why I said "Let's see the prosecutions and convictions".

Our government is in bed with P&O's parent country DP World with their Freeports scheme so P&O might expect (and I suspect they will get) favourable treatment which they never could get if the case was taken to the European Court of Justice.

EU Law doesn't ban zero hour contracts so it's not written on any paper, worthless or otherwise. This issue is like fire and rehire in that it is left to the individual countries to decide their policy on this.
 
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