Christina Pike survives execution attempt

[Frankenstein Underworld]

I'm sure all of that is true, but it only underlines the fact that the female-dominated fields are often valued lower.

But is that because they're female-dominated, or are there other reasons behind it?

I certainly believe that there are some undervalued careers out there, but that appears to have more to do with classism than sexism to me.

Some say there'd be more peace and prosperity in the world if women ran things, but female politicians and CEOs typically follow the same playbook.

 

[Spooky Owl!]

But is that because they're female-dominated, or are there other reasons behind it?

I certainly believe that there are some undervalued careers out there, but that appears to have more to do with classism than sexism to me.

Some say there'd be more peace and prosperity in the world if women ran things, but female politicians and CEOs typically follow the same playbook.

And female regents, although fewer in number, have an even higher warlike rate than male regents. Just as lesbians have a higher domestic violence rate than any other demographic. (Gay men have the lowest -- if you don't count their sex).

 

[CryptCreeper72]

Still no specifics. Women avoid industries that are dangerous and difficult, and are less prone to turning their lives over to the careers they choose.

Saying that "female-dominated careers are often less valued" is a way of getting around the issue that women choose those "less-valued" fields.

Women don't necessarily avoid careers that are difficult, unless you think teaching and childcare and nursing are easy - which they aren't. And now days, teaching and nursing could be designated as dangerous professions.

I do agree that women are less likely to turn their lives over to their careers than their male counterparts - and that is all about gender roles and societal expectations. Someone has to take care of the kids and generally speaking that is the mother.

 

[Spooky Owl!]

Women don't necessarily avoid careers that are difficult, unless you think teaching and childcare and nursing are easy - which they aren't. And now days, teaching and nursing could be designated as dangerous professions.

I do agree that women are less likely to turn their lives over to their careers than their male counterparts - and that is all about gender roles and societal expectations. Someone has to take care of the kids and generally speaking that is the mother.

There is nothing easy about nursing or child care.

 

[CryptCreeper72]

There is nothing easy about nursing or child care.

But those are roles traditionally dominated by women (as is teaching, which also isn't easy). Nurses make decent money, but not money worthy of their work. Teachers and childcare workers are woefully underpaid.

 

[Spooky Owl!]

But those are roles traditionally dominated by women (as is teaching, which also isn't easy). Nurses make decent money, but not money worthy of their work. Teachers and childcare workers are woefully underpaid.

Sure. But, what about it? A lot of men are woefully underpaid as well. And women tend to avoid even tougher jobs men do -- jobs that sometimes pay better -- because she really doesn't want to do them.

 

[CryptCreeper72]

Sure. But, what about it? A lot of men are woefully underpaid as well. And women tend to avoid even tougher jobs men do -- jobs that sometimes pay better -- because she really doesn't want to do them.

Is it really because she doesn't want to do them? And when you say tougher jobs, are you talking jobs that are physically tougher? It seems as if you believe a job that requires you to get dirty is "tougher" just because of a little dirt.

And yeah, a lot of men are underpaid. Are they to blame for choosing to avoid "tougher" jobs? Or does that logic only apply to women?

 

[CryptCreeper72]

I have said this before in this thread and I will say it again - not everything is about gender.

Want to talk about tough jobs? Garbage men, janitors and cleaning ladies, retail workers...all undervalued and underpaid.

As @Frankenstein Underworld said, this is primarily about classism. Women don't make less money than men because they're women - not exactly. Women make less money than men because the services that women provide are undervalued - not easier, just less valued.

 

[Spooky Owl!]

Is it really because she doesn't want to do them? And when you say tougher jobs, are you talking jobs that are physically tougher? It seems as if you believe a job that requires you to get dirty is "tougher" just because of a little dirt.

And yeah, a lot of men are underpaid. Are they to blame for choosing to avoid "tougher" jobs? Or does that logic only apply to women?

A little dirt?

I have said this before in this thread and I will say it again - not everything is about gender.

Want to talk about tough jobs? Garbage men, janitors and cleaning ladies, retail workers...all undervalued and underpaid.

As @Frankenstein Underworld said, this is primarily about classism. Women don't make less money than men because they're women - not exactly. Women make less money than men because the services that women provide are undervalued - not easier, just less valued.

Many of them are easier.

 

[CryptCreeper72]

A little dirt?



Many of them are easier.

I mean, if it's not about the dirt, what's it about?

Which ones are easier? Name them. Explain why it's easier than the "tough" jobs of men. Please. Explain your thinking, because right now it seems like you're just sour on the female gender and deny a creature that evil can make any positive contributions to society.

 

[Spooky Owl!]

I mean, if it's not about the dirt, what's it about?

Which ones are easier? Name them. Explain why it's easier than the "tough" jobs of men. Please. Explain your thinking, because right now it seems like you're just sour on the female gender and deny a creature that evil can make any positive contributions to society.

Jesus Christ. And who said anything about the female gender being too evil to make a positive contribution to society?

 

[CryptCreeper72]

Jesus Christ. And who said anything about the female gender being too evil to make a positive contribution to society?

Well, you have called the female gender evil.

My point is, which tough jobs by men, that women refuse to do, are you speaking about? And can you explain why those jobs are tougher and should be valued over very difficult jobs traditionally done by women?

 

[Spooky Owl!]

Well, you have called the female gender evil.

Have I? The entire gender? Oh, my!

My point is, which tough jobs by men, that women refuse to do, are you speaking about? And can you explain why those jobs are tougher and should be valued over very difficult jobs traditionally done by women?

You aren't aware of physically tougher jobs that men do that women don't -- or won't, or can't??

The point is that "the wage gap" is a lie. A valid wage gap as it pertains to gender would require women being paid less for the same job at the same number of hours. Which doesn't happen today... If she makes less money, it's due to her own choices of career and hours worked.

 

[CryptCreeper72]

Have I? The entire gender? Oh, my!



You aren't aware of physically tougher jobs that men do that women don't -- or won't, or can't??

The point is that "the wage gap" is a lie. A valid wage gap as it pertains to gender would require women being paid less for the same job at the same number of hours. Which doesn't happen today... If she makes less money, it's due to her own choices of career and hours worked.

So, you are saying that jobs that are physically demanding are tougher than jobs that aren't and therefore are worth higher wages? @Spooky Owl! I love you and love most of your posts, but of that were true my local ditch digger would be making more than my local real estate guru.

And believe it or not, there is still a wage gap for women in some careers. My background is in technology and education. In both fields, women are paid less, at least in the beginning . Same with retail. Men managers tend to make a bit more than women, that's why most small retail stores have women managers.

But, the point that was being made is that women dominated jobs and industries are less valued than men dominated jobs and industries. That's true. And you will never convince me that teaching isn't just as tough as construction work - it's just less valued.

 

[Spooky Owl!]

So, you are saying that jobs that are physically demanding are tougher than jobs that aren't and therefore are worth higher wages?

And you don't?

my local ditch digger would be making more than my local real estate guru.

And she's quite happy to be paid more as your real estate agent, all those chipped nails notwithstanding.

But, the point that was being made is that women dominated jobs and industries are less valued than men dominated jobs and industries. That's true. And you will never convince me that teaching isn't just as tough as construction work - it's just less valued.

Why do you think women avoid those jobs?

And believe it or not, there is still a wage gap for women in some careers. My background is in technology and education. In both fields, women are paid less, at least in the beginning .

And didn't you rightly file a complaint, or a suit, and it was corrected?

 

[CryptCreeper72]

I was only able to get my situation "corrected" because someone was stupid enough to say the quiet parts out loud.

As to why women avoid those "tough" jobs? Men are physically stronger than women. Men, in general have the luxury of working hard and then just coming home - women, generally don't. So what we are saying as a society is that physical strength and labor is worth more than jobs that don't require those things and that's not always true.

No, I don't think a job that is physically demanding is necessarily worth higher wages than jobs that aren't. Again, you will never convince me that a construction worker should make more than a teacher or a daycare provider.