Citizen Kane (1941) -- What's the word?

[ClassyCo]

For years, Orson Welles' CITIZEN KANE (1941) was considered the gold standard of filmmaking. It's got a story mirroring real-life, and a production perhaps just as interesting as anything seen on the screen. VERTIGO (1958) has since taken its crown as the best film ever made.

I've known about this movie for many years, but I've never owned, and -- to my own surprise -- never even seen it. There have been numerous occasions where I've had said film in my Amazon shopping cart, but I've always come short of pulling the trigger and buying it.

So -- why my anxiety?

Well, to be honest, I am slightly concerned that a movie with this much hype will turn out to be underwhelming and I'll hate the fact that I ruined its reputation of perfection by watching it. There's also the side of me that likes to push against the bandwagon that most people seem to ride in holding this movie in such high regard.

What are you thoughts on this movie? Is its hype deserved?

I'm considering buying the Criterion 4K Blu-ray edition, but I want to hear what others have to say.

 

[Crimson]

If you go into CITIZEN KANE thinking you're going to have your mind blown by watching "the greatest movie ever made", you are surely to be disappointed. The film was hugely influential, but that means you've seen its tricks a thousand times in other movies since. Unlike a lot of other films that tend to make those "greatest" lists, KANE at least isn't a pretentious bore. Welles inherently understood the importance of a movie being entertaining not just artistic. KANE, like THE MAGNIFICENT AMBERSONS, is basically a melodrama about the fortunes and foibles of the American rich.

 

[Willie Oleson]

VERTIGO (1958) has since taken its crown as the best film ever made

That really blows my mind.

I also have never seen Citizen Kane but I don't think I could love it more than Welles' film of Kafka's THE TRIAL.
Magnificent Ambersons was great too (despite being a vandalised version).

I have THE THIRD MAN in my watchlist but that film wasn't made by Orson Welles. Also starring Joseph Cotten whom I think is a little bit overlooked when it comes to discussing great actors from that era.

 

[ClassyCo]

So the reviews for this release aren't terribly good on Amazon. The basic downside I see people complaining about is the packaging and the Blu-ray discs being faulty.

I like the fact of having a Criterion and Blu-ray edition of CITIZEN KANE, but I'm weary after seeing these reviews. YouTubers don't seem to be to keen on the release, either, from what I've seen.

This release is currently US$15.99 on Amazon right now, but it's not the 4K version. I've thought about buying it because it's so cheap, but these reviews aren't too promising.

Should I just buy ON THE WATERFRONT instead?

 

[ClassyCo]

If you go into CITIZEN KANE thinking you're going to have your mind blown by watching "the greatest movie ever made", you are surely to be disappointed.

I've done my best to keep my opinion moderate until I actually get to see it for myself.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Frankly, I prefer old VHS prints of old movies to Blu-rays (which nearly always seem washed out). DVDs are usually acceptable.

As Crimson says above, these movies that created a splash at the time with their new techniques have seen those techniques reproduced many times by later films, so younger audiences might not "get" what was so great about them once they see them.

I like CITIZEN KANE a lot (and it's likely no coincidence that Bernard Herrmann scored both KANE and VERTIGO, so skilled he was at hovering menace -- although "menace" is probably the wrong word). It's a work of art, KANE, with every aspect of every frame carefully considered. I think it's still extremely effective, even today.

And he was only 25 when he made it, Orson Welles.

In recent years, researchers have come to believe Herman Mankiewicz really wrote it (the brother of Joseph "All About Eve" Mankiewicz, so there was something there in the genetics) but Welles' pal, Peter Bogdanovich, disputes those claims.

Rated for decades as "the greatest movie ever made", in recent years the AFI, I think, pushed VERTIGO into the top spot. The haunted cemetery scene at high noon is just "so very '50s" (as is most of the movie). The fragile, idealized aspirations of the decade (basically, trying to put lipstick on a pig, as Jimmy Stewart does to Kim Novak) which ends in deception and disaster.

VERTIGO was always one of my favorites, too. But how do you compare it to CITIZEN KANE? They're so different and yet they're not (as Herrmann's scores remind us).

See a pretty good documentary, THE BATTLE OVER CITIZEN KANE, from 1996, below in this thread...

 

[ClassyCo]

Frankly, I prefer old VHS prints of old movies to Blu-rays (which nearly always seem washed out). DVDs are usually acceptable.

Many moons ago, I bought VHS copies of old movies I wanted, simply because they were cheaper. I buy DVDs the most, but occasionally a Blu-ray copy of something I really want. We do have a dual DVD/Blu-ray player.

Rated for decades as "the greatest movie ever made", in recent years the AFI, I think, pushed VERTIGO into the top spot.

Yes, VERTIGO has displaced CITIZEN KANE as AFI's "best film of all time". It has been years since I've seen Hitchcock's VERTIGO, but I need to give it another look.

I've yet to see CITIZEN KANE.

 

[Crimson]

In recent years, researchers have come to believe Herman Mankiewicz really wrote it (the brother of Joseph "All About Eve" Mankiewicz, so there was something there in the genetics) but Welles' pal, Peter Bogdanovich, disputes those claims.

I think Bogdanovich was a big believer in the auteur theory, the idea that some films are shaped by singular visions of their director (or producer). His defense of Welles was as much a defense of the theory as the director.

IMO, it's a mostly invalid theory. Film is the most collaborative of art forms. Even if Welles was the visionary of KANE, his vision couldn't have been achieved without the screenplay contributions of Mankiewicz, the cinematography of Tolland, the editing of Wise and the music of Hermann.

VERTIGO was always one of my favorites, too. But how do you compare it to CITIZEN KANE? They're so different and yet they're not (as Herrmann's scores remind us).

While I have nothing against VERTIGO, it's not even my favorite of Hitch's films let along a strong contender for the best movie overall. I'm not sure how it's estimation rose so high, except perhaps that it's one of the films that people project a lot onto.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

I'm not sure how it's estimation rose so high, except perhaps that it's one of the films that people project a lot onto.

 

[DallasFanForever]

Yes, VERTIGO has displaced CITIZEN KANE as AFI's "best film of all time". It has been years since I've seen Hitchcock's VERTIGO, but I need to give it another look.

I am an admitted fan of VERTIGO but I haven’t seen it in many years as well so I’m interested to see how I would feel about it now. I’ve never seen it as a flawed movie necessarily but given the comments I’m reading here I wonder if I might’ve missed something.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

It's weird about VERTIGO -- I can see how someone might not see it as a superlative film (or even superlative Hitchcock) but I've always placed amongst my faves. It has something to do with the era (as I've said), the sleepy, dreamy idealized '50s thing -- the top of the twentieth century -- the gauzy American myth which turns out to be unmitigated bullshit underneath.

LA JETEE stole a fair amount from VERTIGO (just as ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST stole much from JOHNNY GUITAR).

 

[ClassyCo]

I must admit that I do not find VERTIGO to be top-tier Hitchcock, or even befitting "the best film of all time" crown.

 

[DallasFanForever]

I must admit that I do not find VERTIGO to be top-tier Hitchcock, or even befitting "the best film of all time" crown.

I do find it brilliant from a Hitchcock perspective, but best film of all time? Oh no, I’ve never felt that way about it. I think it’s quite underrated as a film but that’s probably pushing it.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

I remember watching it and thinking 'OK what is it all about'

Not a bad movie at all, but nothing close to what I consider an elite film

 

[Angela Channing]

Citizen Kane is undoubtedly a great film but it's no the greatest film of all time in my opinion. One of the reason it's held in such high regard is its ground breaking camera work, particularly the use of deep focus, which wasn't used in film making until then. In terms of entertainment or art, there are many better films.