Domestic health passport to enter pubs and get jobs

[ArchieLucasCarringtonEwing1989]

I could get someone to teach me how to drive and when I feel I'm competent why should I need to get a license to prove I'm safe on the roads? If enough other people have driving licenses they can protect themselves from me if I prove to be a terrible driver.

To make me have to take a test and get a license so I can drive is blackmail. It should be a basic human right to decide when you feel ready to drive without the state demanding that I prove I'm competent. It's fascism and authoritarian to force people to get a driving license so they can drive a car on the streets and it's disappoint that so many people are willing to allow this.

This is precisely your argument.

It’s a poor comparison, everyone knows you have to have a drivers license to drive.

Its far more dangerous to drive without a license than it it is for unvaccinated young and healthy person to buy a loaf of bread for crying out loud!
That’s how you want to view it and compare it! And a strange comparison too

 

[Angela Channing]

It’s a poor comparison, everyone knows you have to have a drivers license to drive.

Its far more dangerous to drive without a license than it it is for unvaccinated young and healthy person to buy a loaf of bread for crying out loud!
That’s how you want to view it and compare it! And a strange comparison too

Why do people have to have a license to drive? People can learn driving skills so why do they need to have a test and get a license? If people choose not to get a license by default they are choosing not to drive.

A unvaccinated young healthy person with the Covid virus can pass it on to 2 or 3 more people each of who in turn pass it on to 2 or 3 more people and the pandemic continues, more people die, we have to have another lockdown to stop its spread and that leads to more job losses which disproportionately impacts on young people. Not being vaccinated shafts more young people than being vaccinated.

If someone doesn't want the have the vaccination that's their choice but they shouldn't go to crowded indoor events where they can spread the virus and kill other people. If they do have the vaccination those events can go ahead. It's exactly the same with choosing not to have a driving license which everyone accepts is a personal choice which will restrict some of the things you can do.

 

[ArchieLucasCarringtonEwing1989]

Why do people have to have a license to drive? People can learn driving skills so why do they need to have a test and get a license? If people choose not to get a license by default they are choosing not to drive.

A unvaccinated young healthy person with the Covid virus can pass it on to 2 or 3 more people each of who in turn pass it on to 2 or 3 more people and the pandemic continues, more people die, we have to have another lockdown to stop its spread and that leads to more job losses which disproportionately impacts on young people. Not being vaccinated shafts more young people than being vaccinated.

If someone doesn't want the have the vaccination that's their choice but they shouldn't go to crowded indoor events where they can spread the virus and kill other people. If they do have the vaccination those events can go ahead. It's exactly the same with choosing not to have a driving license which everyone accepts is a personal choice which will restrict some of the things you can do.

So by that logic, an unvaccinated person is choosing not to work, choosing to be poorer, choosing to become a second class citizen, and that’s what we as a society have come to after years of endless divisions and fighting for equality?
People need to work, people don’t have to drive, so it’s hardly a good comparison.

And this isn’t at all blackmail is it? If you have Covid symptoms then it’s common sense to stay home like you would with the flu or cold it’s called common sense has that disappeared over the last year?

How about we tell the vulnerable to stay home and not partake in society? If they’re worried about an unvaccinated young person they should stay home and not guilt trip the younger generation who have already sacrificed enough this pay year, and by the way they will also be the generation paying for three lockdowns, bit hard for them to do that if they can’t work because they haven’t taken the jab now isn’t it

Covid is just something we have to Live with, no lockdowns, no restrictions, just get on with it

 

[Angela Channing]

So by that logic, an unvaccinated person is choosing not to work, choosing to be poorer, choosing to become a second class citizen, and that’s what we as a society have come to after years of endless divisions and fighting for equality?
People need to work, people don’t have to drive, so it’s hardly a good comparison.

And this isn’t at all blackmail is it? If you have Covid symptoms then it’s common sense to stay home like you would with the flu or cold it’s called common sense has that disappeared over the last year?

How about we tell the vulnerable to stay home and not partake in society? If they’re worried about an unvaccinated young person they should stay home and not guilt trip the younger generation who have already sacrificed enough this pay year, and by the way they will also be the generation paying for three lockdowns, bit hard for them to do that if they can’t work because they haven’t taken the jab now isn’t it

Covid is just something we have to Live with, no lockdowns, no restrictions, just get on with it

Some jobs require people to drive, why should people who can drive but don't have a license be excluded from those roles? It's a perfectly good comparison.

A third of people with the Covid virus show no symptoms but can still infect others. It's therefore important that as many people as possible get vaccinated. Those who are not vaccinated should accept there are consequences of their decision.

I don't agree we have to live it the Covid-19 virus, we should be trying to eliminate it completely. The more virus there is in society, the more it can mutate and the more that the mutations will be able to evade the vaccinations which will put us back to square one. People who are hesitant to be vaccinated need to have their fears allayed so they can become comfortable with having the vaccine. It's not about stopping people from working, it's about enabling everyone to work more safely.

For many industries are the only realistic choices until the infection rate is significantly lower than it is currently:

• Open fully to people who are vaccinated and be profitable
• Open to everyone but with limited numbers of customers to enable social distancing, and run at a loss
• Open fully to everyone and risk spreading the virus further, infections soar and we have to go back into lockdown
• Remain closed

I don't think we are going to agree but I think the choice that is best for safety and best for jobs is for those industries to be allowed to introduce vaccine passports.

 

[ArchieLucasCarringtonEwing1989]

Some jobs require people to drive, why should people who can drive but don't have a license be excluded from those roles? It's a perfectly good comparison.

A third of people with the Covid virus show no symptoms but can still infect others. It's therefore important that as many people as possible get vaccinated. Those who are not vaccinated should accept there are consequences of their decision.

I don't agree we have to live it the Covid-19 virus, we should be trying to eliminate it completely. The more virus there is in society, the more it can mutate and the more that the mutations will be able to evade the vaccinations which will put us back to square one. People who are hesitant to be vaccinated need to have their fears allayed so they can become comfortable with having the vaccine. It's not about stopping people from working, it's about enabling everyone to work more safely.

For many industries are the only realistic choices until the infection rate is significantly lower than it is currently:

• Open fully to people who are vaccinated and be profitable
• Open to everyone but with limited numbers of customers to enable social distancing, and run at a loss
• Open fully to everyone and risk spreading the virus further, infections soar and we have to go back into lockdown
• Remain closed

I don't think we are going to agree but I think the choice that is best for safety and best for jobs is for those industries to be allowed to introduce vaccine passports.

But driving jobs aren’t the only jobs and one doesn’t have to do a job that involves driving so in my opinion that is not a good comparison.

With enough vulnerable and elderly people vaccinated Covid won’t be a big killer going forward, What’s the fear If you’ve been vaccinated if you’re sitting next to someone unvaccinated?

You can’t eliminate Covid, it is here forever, just like the cold and just like the flu, it’s a new seasonal disease we will have to simply get used to that is the fact of the matter, all the flu vaccines in the world haven’t eradicated the flu, it still comes around every year.

Are we supposed to just live in fear for six months of the year if it’s Covid season? No that’s not practical

Yes you’re right we won’t agree, I don’t agree with authoritarianism because it leads down a bad road everytime.

All domestic vaccine passports have Done is give credence to conspiracy theorists who predicted this could happen last year, I laughed at that.

How would you feel I suggest that the elderly and vulnerable should stay home and never leave if they don’t have confidence in the vaccine? Sounds pretty horrible doesn’t it, the fact you and many others think excluding people from society after all we have overcome Is an acceptable step is something i find disgraceful.

I’ll happily do a test every week for my job, I’ll happily do a on door test for events, because that at least still offers freedom and freedom within the law should never come with conditions.

 

[Angela Channing]

But driving jobs aren’t the only jobs and one doesn’t have to do a job that involves driving so in my opinion that is not a good comparison.

Going to the pub and sitting in an enclosed indoor space with crowds of other people isn't the only way the unvaccinated can spend their leisure time or consume alcohol so it is a good comparison.

With enough vulnerable and elderly people vaccinated Covid won’t be a big killer going forward, What’s the fear If you’ve been vaccinated if you’re sitting next to someone unvaccinated?

Even the best current vaccines are not 100% effective so you would feel more secure knowing that the person sat next to you was also vaccinated. Some vaccines are not effective at all with some variants so knowing there is a good chance person next to you might have been vaccinated with another vaccine will give you more confidence of being safe.

You can’t eliminate Covid, it is here forever, just like the cold and just like the flu, it’s a new seasonal disease we will have to simply get used to that is the fact of the matter, all the flu vaccines in the world haven’t eradicated the flu, it still comes around every year.

The Covid virus can die out just like the Spanish flu virus did so that should be our aim. Flu is no where near as lethal as Covid so it's practical to live with that virus but that just isn't the case with Covid.

Are we supposed to just live in fear for six months of the year if it’s Covid season? No that’s not practical

No, which is why everyone should be encouraged to be vaccinated and have boosters against future variants so we don't have to live in fear. Not being vaccinated prolongs the fear.

Yes you’re right we won’t agree, I don’t agree with authoritarianism because it leads down a bad road everytime.

I don't agree with authoritarianism either but no one is being forced to be vaccinated and that would still be the case if we had vaccine passports.

How would you feel I suggest that the elderly and vulnerable should stay home and never leave if they don’t have confidence in the vaccine? Sounds pretty horrible doesn’t it, the fact you and many others think excluding people from society after all we have overcome Is an acceptable step is something i find disgraceful.

That was the situation in the first lockdown for many of the most vulnerable. Vaccination will give them back the freedom to go out again but it will only work if everyone who can have a vaccine takes it. The Oxford vaccine is around 90% effective so a vulnerable person would have a 1 in 10 chance of catching the virus from someone with Covid. If everyone was vaccinated that chance would drop massively.

I’ll happily do a test every week for my job, I’ll happily do a on door test for events, because that at least still offers freedom and freedom within the law should never come with conditions.

Would you be happy to pay more than everyone else to cover the costs of your test and processing time at an event? Are you happy to wait longer to gain entry to venues than other people? Are you happy to stay longer at work to compensate for the time you spend taking the test and waiting for results (around an extra 30 minutes per test)? One test a week would not be sufficient to have any degree of safety, it would need to be around 3 times a week and lateral flow test are only around 60% accurate so there will be many people with Covid-19 who will go undetected. The extra costs and time with testing makes you less free, vaccination makes you more free.

 

[ArchieLucasCarringtonEwing1989]

Going to the pub and sitting in an enclosed indoor space with crowds of other people isn't the only way the unvaccinated can spend their leisure time or consume alcohol so it is a good comparison.

Even the best current vaccines are not 100% effective so you would feel more secure knowing that the person sat next to you was also vaccinated. Some vaccines are not effective at all with some variants so knowing there is a good chance person next to you might have been vaccinated with another vaccine will give you more confidence of being safe.

The Covid virus can die out just like the Spanish flu virus did so that should be our aim. Flu is no where near as lethal as Covid so it's practical to live with that virus but that just isn't the case with Covid.

No, which is why everyone should be encouraged to be vaccinated and have boosters against future variants so we don't have to live in fear. Not being vaccinated prolongs the fear.

I don't agree with authoritarianism either but no one is being forced to be vaccinated and that would still be the case if we had vaccine passports.

That was the situation in the first lockdown for many of the most vulnerable. Vaccination will give them back the freedom to go out again but it will only work if everyone who can have a vaccine takes it. The Oxford vaccine is around 90% effective so a vulnerable person would have a 1 in 10 chance of catching the virus from someone with Covid. If everyone was vaccinated that chance would drop massively.

Would you be happy to pay more than everyone else to cover the costs of your test and processing time at an event? Are you happy to wait longer to gain entry to venues than other people? Are you happy to stay longer at work to compensate for the time you spend taking the test and waiting for results (around an extra 30 minutes per test)? One test a week would not be sufficient to have any degree of safety, it would need to be around 3 times a week and lateral flow test are only around 60% accurate so there will be many people with Covid-19 who will go undetected. The extra costs and time with testing makes you less free, vaccination makes you more free.

None of what you say justifies this authoritarian way we’re heading.

It’s not necessary for everyone to take the vaccine for a virus with a high survival rate especially if they’re young and healthy.

I don’t support this blackmail, Everyone I know has complied with the rules, I don’t see why a bunch of fascists think they should take away our freedoms and rights anymore than they have already

As I said before those in favour of domestic vaccine passports should be very careful what they wish for, authoritarianism has a way of snowballing into something that none of us want.

 

[cobbles]

I don't have a driving license, it's my choice, but I can't demand I should be able to drive a car. It's not blackmail to insist that everyone that drives should have a license, it's about public safety, The same is true about the Covid vaccine.

No one is being blackmailed, people have the free choice whether or not they want to have the vaccine but their choice has consequences. If it was only about their health then that would be ok but why should people be permitted to infect and maybe kill others when it could be prevented.

I wouldn't be happy but that would be their choice. I would be more unhappy about young people who lose their job because they work in industries that can't reopen because they are unable to implement social distancing. Those young people would lose their jobs because of the choices of other people not to be vaccinated.

Your missing the key difference - everybody - with enough money or generous enough parents but that's another issue - can learn to drive the day they turn 17.

The vaccination programme goes from oldest to youngest. The youngest are the least likely to die from Covid, yet they would be the ones left with the most to lose from a vaccination passport scheme.

 

[ArchieLucasCarringtonEwing1989]

Your missing the key difference - everybody - with enough money or generous enough parents but that's another issue - can learn to drive the day they turn 17.

The vaccination programme goes from oldest to youngest. The youngest are the least likely to die from Covid, yet they would be the ones left with the most to lose from a vaccination passport scheme.

This is my point exactly, don’t see how a Domestic vaccine passport Would help anything.

If young people can no longer go to pubs or theatres or festivals, then illegal pubs and festivals will occur instead, where there will be zero social distancing, zero precautions and someone unknown getting rich out of rebellious teenagers wanting a good time, thereby legal pubs and venues will lose money anyway since that section of the economy is pretty much propped up by the 18-34’s.

If young people can’t work because they won’t get the vaccine how will they get money? Benefits won’t be that much and poorer young people will turn to crime

I’ll be happy with testing, but domestic vaccine passports will only create new problems.

 

[Angela Channing]

Deleted. Duplicate post.

 

[Angela Channing]

Deleted. Duplicate post

 

[Angela Channing]

Your missing the key difference - everybody - with enough money or generous enough parents but that's another issue - can learn to drive the day they turn 17.

The vaccination programme goes from oldest to youngest. The youngest are the least likely to die from Covid, yet they would be the ones left with the most to lose from a vaccination passport scheme.

You say everyone can learn how to drive, well everyone can be vaccinated. I don't get the point you are trying to make.

Also, why would the young lose out more from a vaccine passport that would be implemented for people of all ages?

 

[ArchieLucasCarringtonEwing1989]

You say everyone can learn hot to drive, well everyone can be vaccinated. I don't get the point you are trying to make.

Also, why would the young lose out more from a vaccine passport that would be implemented for people of all ages?

Because you don’t have drive, and it’s not mandatory to do so, people can live their whole lives without driving and it won’t effect them.

Not taking a vaccine they don’t need would effect young people if they have Domestic vaccine passports and would also affect pubs, gigs and festivals which are propped up by young people.

 

[cobbles]

You say everyone can learn how to drive, well everyone can be vaccinated. I don't get the point you are trying to make.

Also, why would the young lose out more from a vaccine passport that would be implemented for people of all ages?

You've completed missed the point. Everyone can learn to drive at the same age.

Vaccination is staggered from oldest to youngest - you can't get a vaccine unless your old or extremely ill (even many of those of us who are young and classed at 'moderate risk' from Covid are being refused vaccines until they get down to our age.)

The vaccine passport system as commonly accepted would prevent the young from working, the young from going to events and socialising in pubs etc.

What's especially infuriating is that is the youngest who have most stringently followed social distancing regulations in my experience, whereas the old and ill who are meant to be being protected by the actions of the young and healthy consistently flout them .

 

[Angela Channing]

Because you don’t have drive, and it’s not mandatory to do so, people can live their whole lives without driving and it won’t effect them.

Not taking a vaccine they don’t need would effect young people if they have Domestic vaccine passports and would also affect pubs, gigs and festivals which are propped up by young people.

You don't have to have a covid vaccine, it's not mandatory to do so and the introduction of a vaccine passport won't change that.

Most young people, like most older people, have indicated they want to have a covid vaccine so pubs, gigs and festivals will be able to run without social distancing if proof of vaccination was introduced. Without it many of those venues will not be able to run profitably.

 

[Angela Channing]

You've completed missed the point. Everyone can learn to drive at the same age.

Vaccination is staggered from oldest to youngest - you can't get a vaccine unless your old or extremely ill (even many of those of us who are young and classed at 'moderate risk' from Covid are being refused vaccines until they get down to our age.)

The vaccine passport system as commonly accepted would prevent the young from working, the young from going to events and socialising in pubs etc.

What's especially infuriating is that is the youngest who have most stringently followed social distancing regulations in my experience, whereas the old and ill who are meant to be being protected by the actions of the young and healthy consistently flout them .

Yes but a vaccination passport wouldn't be introduced until all adults had been offered a vaccination. As I said in my previous post, surveys have show most young people (people 18 - 35) are willing to be vaccinated. The argument that a vaccine passport would stop young people from working is not based on the facts.

I do agree with your final point that young people have been better at adhering to the lockdown rules than the old.

 

[cobbles]

Yes but a vaccination passport wouldn't be introduced until all adults had been offered a vaccination. As I said in my previous post, surveys have show most young people (people 18 - 35) are willing to be vaccinated. The argument that a vaccine passport would stop young people from working is not based on the facts.

I do agree with your final point that young people have been better at adhering to the lockdown rules than the old.

Whilst most sensible people think it should only be introduced after everyone has been vaccinated, that's not uniform version of it I've heard.

If it was introduced after everyone aged over 18 had been vaccinated I couldn't give a f**k, however I've seen it suggested their should be one for the Euros or when pubs open, despite it being likely most 18-35 year olds won't have even been offered a vaccine by that point and certainly not both doses.

 

[Angela Channing]

Whilst most sensible people think it should only be introduced after everyone has been vaccinated, that's not uniform version of it I've heard.

If it was introduced after everyone aged over 18 had been vaccinated I couldn't give a f***, however I've seen it suggested their should be one for the Euros or when pubs open, despite it being likely most 18-35 year olds won't have even been offered a vaccine by that point and certainly not both doses.

The government are indicating that everyone will be vaccinated by the end of July. That would be a good time to roll out vaccine passport. It will take at least that long to make the decision, get it through Parliament and to put in place the infrastructure to run the scheme.

 

[ArchieLucasCarringtonEwing1989]

The government are indicating that everyone will be vaccinated by the end of July. That would be a good time to roll out vaccine passport. It will take at least that long to make the decision, get it through Parliament and to put in place the infrastructure to run the scheme.

And hopefully it won’t happen! We don’t want fascism in this country.

If people unvaccinated can’t get jobs to earn money or go to shops then crime will rise, do we really want to go down this road.

The fascists are rubbing their hands with glee at how willing people are to hand over power to them without lifting a finger

 

[Alexis]

But is it not a slippery slope into authoritarianism? Basically blackmailing the healthy and those that aren’t affected by Covid ie the younger generation into getting a vaccine, where does it stop then? It’ll create a two tier society and there are multiple reasons for not taking the vaccine, not all are anti vax, some it’s religious reasons, bigotry already exists do we need more of it?

Its one thing to be safe it’s another allowing fascism through the backdoor, plus this gives credence to conspiracy theorists who predicted such a thing would happen.

Personally a domestic vaccine passport is utter nonsense

Everyone is affected by Covid. Yes for the most part younger people seem to deal better with it. However, the virus will continue to mutate and it will not go away. It will be around forever now like Flu. There could in time be strains that affect the young differently. Most of us are vaccinated in childhood against things like Polio, Hepatitis B, Whooping Cough, Tetanus, Diphtheria, Meningitis C and B, Mumps, Measles, Rubella, PCV, Rota virus and HIB. In adulthood there is the Flu vaccine. If you travel, especially to the tropics there are other vaccines and immunisations that are required. Eventually Covid vaccines could be required for all. Certain jobs and professions could even require you to have it.

The virus was spread globally in a very short matter of time due to travel. This could happen again seasonally unless something was done to curtail the spread of the virus. If most of the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated that lowers that possibility. However, younger travellers who are not vaccinated and who think themselves not at risk could potentially spark new variants of the virus and cause all kinds of havoc all over again, just as we think we could be finding our way out of this. If a vaccine is there, and is shown to work, why would you not take it? If it means having a card that says you are free to travel because you have been vaccinated then why not? Or of course we could continue to live in an isolated world with limited contact and limited travel.

I have taken the vaccine and lived to tell the tale, and I will take that card/passport too.