DYNASTY versus DALLAS versus KNOTS LANDING versus the rest of them

[Zara]

I think the general idea of these prime time soaps is that people like to watch rich/powerful families being sexy and miserable, with the odd moments of sympathy here and there. After all, they're still people.

The Carringtons were always very good at being cursed but at some point they stopped being jinxed (which, indeed, returned in the last season).
The Ewings, however, kept pulling outsiders into their orbit of black gold & misery (which in itself proves that NuDallas was not a failure at all) and that's the reason why "smaller scale" Dallas looked bigger than Dynasty. Ironically.

Yeah. Dallas looked bigger, but Dynasty was way higher up in that sense. They seemed nearly untouchable, and if The Ewings pulled outsiders in to join their misery, The Carringtons rejected every outsider. They made it clear that THEY chose who was allowed in.

 

[Willie Oleson]

The Carringtons rejected every outsider.

And there's nothing wrong with that snobbish attitude, but when the script itself literally rejects every outsider then it also rejects potentially good characters and storylines. And if the Carringtons were untouchable that doesn't mean they should stop affecting the lives of others.
That's what made the first season such great drama: Krystle, Ted Dinard, The Blaisdels (and maybe Jeff, too) - they all had to pay the price for getting involved with the mighty Carringtons.
The last outsider who suffered a similar fate (and I don't mean his death) was Mark Jennings. Cooped up in Alexis' penthouse, miserable and drunk.

 

[Ked]

And there's nothing wrong with that snobbish attitude, but when the script itself literally rejects every outsider then it also rejects potentially good characters and storylines. And if the Carringtons were untouchable that doesn't mean they should stop affecting the lives of others.
That's what made the first season such great drama: Krystle, Ted Dinard, The Blaisdels (and maybe Jeff, too) - they all had to pay the price for getting involved with the mighty Carringtons.
The last outsider who suffered a similar fate (and I don't mean his death) was Mark Jennings. Cooped up in Alexis' penthouse, miserable and drunk.

I'd argue Claudia and Kirby also suffered similar fates.

 

[Zara]

And there's nothing wrong with that snobbish attitude, but when the script itself literally rejects every outsider then it also rejects potentially good characters and storylines. And if the Carringtons were untouchable that doesn't mean they should stop affecting the lives of others.
That's what made the first season such great drama: Krystle, Ted Dinard, The Blaisdels (and maybe Jeff, too) - they all had to pay the price for getting involved with the mighty Carringtons.
The last outsider who suffered a similar fate (and I don't mean his death) was Mark Jennings. Cooped up in Alexis' penthouse, miserable and drunk.

And there's nothing wrong with that snobbish attitude, but when the script itself literally rejects every outsider then it also rejects potentially good characters and storylines. And if the Carringtons were untouchable that doesn't mean they should stop affecting the lives of others.
That's what made the first season such great drama: Krystle, Ted Dinard, The Blaisdels (and maybe Jeff, too) - they all had to pay the price for getting involved with the mighty Carringtons.
The last outsider who suffered a similar fate (and I don't mean his death) was Mark Jennings. Cooped up in Alexis' penthouse, miserable and drunk.

I agree. And you could argue this is where the weekly meat grinder didn't do the job right.

The Ewings invited everybody to watch, but The Carringtons/the show in a way lost itself between the fine lines you bring up.

And yes, Season 1 is wonderful drama with several important layer there.

 

[Zara]

I guess I'm looking for logic in a place (soaps) where I shouldn't. You just have to go with the flow, and enjoy the inevitable nature of this format: derailment.
No matter how you tell it.

 

[Zara]

Watching Dallas, it's clear this is popcorn-drama as its fastest. Everything happens in superspeed compared to Dynasty. Dynasty clearly has a lot more intimacy and focuses on talks and looks, a sort of ongoing bedroom-drama.

JR is impossible not to love. I keep watching because of him and his next shananigan.

The two shows couldn't be more different.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Watching Dallas, it's clear this is popcorn-drama as its fastest. Everything happens in superspeed compared to Dynasty. Dynasty clearly has a lot more intimacy and focuses on talks and looks, a sort of ongoing bedroom-drama.

JR is impossible not to love. I keep watching because of him and his next shananigan.

The two shows couldn't be more different.

You've really got to specify the periods of the two shows to which you're referring.

One of the complaints some viewers had about DALLAS' early era was that it was too slow (the season which opened with 'WSJR?' was sometimes like watching paint dry -- made worse by a repetitive stock music score they were forced to use during a composers' strike). And the DYNASTY producers bragged -- correctly, at the time -- that their show moved more quickly and "respected the audiences' intelligent," but that point was made just after Season 2.

But that all changed after the 1981-1982 season: DALLAS then sped up (in a good way) and DYNASTY started to ramble because they were no longer really telling their stories.

DYNASTY's "intimacy" moments became shlock-talk, pretentious filler-exchanges with no real point to them. And DALLAS didn't do that, being more legitimately character-based most of the time.

Yes, the DYNASTY's dialogue from Seasons 1, 2 & 9 did do the things you describe. But during Seasons 3 thru 7, the conversations would always quickly swerve off from the original topic into that "I'm-your-mother/I'm-your-father/why-won't-you-share-your-pain-with-me??"malarkey because the writers were disinterested in with their own plotlines and no longer knew how to write the series.

Rita Lakin, a good writer and the story editor from Season 7 where she toiled unhappily, pointed out self-evidently that DYNASTY's Pollock duo, who ran the show's narrative, "weren't really proper writers." It's no wonder Lakin got out as soon as possible in frustration. Camiile Marchetta, a writer-producer from Season 5, complained that the Pollocks' disrespect for logic was a problem, their doing nonsensical things just to "surprise" viewers.

The last few seasons of DALLAS didn't work either, as we all know. Just becoming too silly.

 

[Zara]

Well, season 3 of Dallas is going like a rocket.

Bobby falls in love with little Luke in one episode before the boy has to go away causing tears, and the adventure in the wilderness with Jock and his sons reveals another enemy from the past as well a hidden first wife. And then there is Sue Ellen's fling with Dusty, also playing out in two-ish episodes with the emotions running unrealistically high. Miss Ellie has an operation (which more feels like a well placed ad for breast self examination). Along with all the other drama, and JR:s shady deals and methods.

You can't make this sh*t up, but apparently you can!

 

[Zara]

Dynasty isn't like this at all. Dallas is definitely plot-driven in my eyes, with a few characters leading it all, and Dynasty is character-driven with visual pretty people loving to talk and look at each other.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Well, season 3 of Dallas is going like a rocket.

But not in a bad way, Season 3. (And remember that DALLAS started out as only a semi-serial).

Dynasty isn't like this at all. Dallas is definitely plot-driven in my eyes, with a few characters leading it all, and Dynasty is character-driven with visual pretty people loving to talk and look at each other.

Mawkish dialogue doesn't make DYNASTY more intimate.

Again, the specific periods within these shows is important. They change during the course of their runs.