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Yeah, I see that.
Hamas' attack on Israel ---Israel's genocide in Gaza
- Thread starter Snarky Oracle!
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Biden is President and so is directing the policy of the government, not Harris, and as part of the administration she is bound by collective responsibility to defend that policy. If she becomes President her policies may be the same or they may be different but they will be her policies and she will have the opportunity out change course.
I know you want to defend Trump but he campaigned on putting conservative judges on the Supreme Court who would be amenable to overturning Roe vs Wade. Trump then boasted about his role in taking away a woman's right to choose what happens to her own body. To try and pretend that he wasn't responsible for the outcome is desperate stuff.
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It's pointless to have a discussion with you because you don't debate in good faith. I didn't "defend Trump" or absolve him of responsibility. I literally said he was involved in the outcome because he put conservatives on the Supreme Court, but that's not good enough for you. You demand complete condemnation of Trump, and to hell with objectivity.
In contrast, you give Harris a pass for heinous positions and shady endorsements. Harris admitted that she supports Biden's agenda, and you even tried to undermine that.
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I admit I'm not objective when it comes to Trump. The man is a rapist, racist felon who and tried to undermine democracy and would do so again. He is totally unfit to be President and I find it staggering that people are prepared to defend him or try to suggest there is any equivalence with anything that Harris has done.
Trump said "After 50 years of failure, with nobody coming even close, I was able to kill Roe v. Wade" [my use of bold]. So he takes credit for his abortion bans but you tried to put distance between him and the decision by saying it was the Supreme Court and that Trump was "not directly" involved in the outcome. That sounds a lot like defending Trump to me.
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I agree he's unfit to be president, which is precisely why I'm not voting for him. I've never defended his actions, but I still believe in discerning fact from fiction and hyperbole.
Harris supports funding the Ukraine War and Israel's genocide in Gaza, both of which are evil by my moral code. Personally, I find that to be worse than falsifying documents regarding hush money payments to a porn star. I'm not defending Trump for committing a crime, but supporting a genocide is far worse by my standards. Trump supports the genocide in Gaza too, and I've certainly never defended him for that. They're both just too vile for me to vote for. As George Carlin said, we only have the illusion of choice.
Democracy and decency are on the ballot, but they don't exist in either of the two mainstream parties. That's why the Dems denied voters the right to choose their nominee. They act like people owe them their vote, and they work hard trying to discredit third parties. They even try to get them kicked off the ballot. The intent of Russia-gate was to make Trump's presidency appear illegitimate and undemocratic. Both parties undermine democracy when they're on the losing side, and they only champion it when they win.
Objective facts are not meant to be taken as a defense of Trump. Trump shares in the responsibility of overturning Roe v. Wade, but the fact remains he didn't do so directly.
The only reason I brought it up in this thread is because it was mentioned that Vance referred to Biden's presidency as "the Harris Administration." I was pointing out that it's a campaign tactic both sides are engaging in to emphasize their opponents' flaws. Harris is tied to Biden's decisions the same way that Trump is tied to rulings made by SCOTUS.
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Trump's begun making his cabinet picks, and many of them are AIPAC/Israel loyalists like you'd expect.
Trump also picked Mike Waltz to be his national security advisor. Waltz, a house Republican from Florida, said he advised Trump to "escalate in Ukraine to pressure Russia to come to the table." Waltz supported the Ukraine War from the start, so I'm not buying his backwards logic. Trump certainly wasted no time betraying his anti-war supporters.
Trump's Cabinet Looks Like MIRIAM ADELSON'S WISHLIST
Trump also picked Mike Waltz to be his national security advisor. Waltz, a house Republican from Florida, said he advised Trump to "escalate in Ukraine to pressure Russia to come to the table." Waltz supported the Ukraine War from the start, so I'm not buying his backwards logic. Trump certainly wasted no time betraying his anti-war supporters.
Trump's Cabinet Looks Like MIRIAM ADELSON'S WISHLIST
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Not surprisingly, the Biden Administration's demands of Israel were completely toothless:
US Announces NO ARMS EMBARGO After Israel MISSES AID DEADLINE
US Announces NO ARMS EMBARGO After Israel MISSES AID DEADLINE
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Well, imagine that!
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There's no equivalence all right.
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I posted this Wesley Clark video several years ago...
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This is a great development. I just hope the incoming cabinet of Zionists don't find a way to screw it up. It's also asking a lot to trust despicable Bibi to keep his word.
President-elect Donald Trump was quick to take credit for the cease-fire struck Wednesday between Israel and Hamas — and progressive critics of the Biden administration’s approach to the conflict were quick to give it to him.
Pro-Palestinian activists and progressives argued that the agreement, which comes after 15 months of war and the deaths of more than 46,000 Palestinians, should have happened sooner. Trump was able to do what President Joe Biden did not in more than a year of talks, some said, pressuring Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to withdraw military forces from the Gaza Strip.
“[Trump] made clear he wanted this war to end and pressed Netanyahu on it in a way that Biden clearly wasn’t willing to do,” said Matt Duss, executive vice president of the Center for International Policy.
Though the broad outline of the deal hasn’t changed much, the context has. Biden is departing, and Netanyahu might be eager to take a different approach with the next administration. “Trump has made clear what he wants, he has his own priorities, and I think it was clearly the unconditional support that Biden gave that provided cover for Netanyahu to continue to prosecute this war, and also that there would be no costs for ignoring either private or public criticisms from the United States,” said Duss, a former foreign policy aide for Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.). “That calculus has changed.”
Still, some of those leaders cautioned they’re skeptical the agreement will lead to a permanent end to the war — and that Israel will abide by its terms. Under the deal, which needs to be approved by the Israeli Cabinet, dozens of hostages will be released and a six-week pause in fighting will start Sunday.
Speaking from the White House, Biden said he was pleased to announce the agreement “at long last” and that the terms of the deal resemble an offer he made in May. The cease-fire is a high point for Biden as he works to cement his legacy in the waning days of his presidency.
Yet Trump, whose team was involved in the final days of talks, got out in front of the White House and posted about the deal before Biden officials made it public. On the campaign trail, Trump repeatedly promised that it would be his leadership that would bring a stop to the conflict.
“This EPIC ceasefire agreement could have only happened as a result of our Historic Victory in November, as it signaled to the entire World that my Administration would seek Peace and negotiate deals to ensure the safety of all Americans, and our Allies,” he posted on Truth Social.
Trump added that his incoming Middle East envoy, Steve Witkoff, who was participating in talks in the lead-up to the agreement, would continue “to work closely with Israel and our Allies to make sure Gaza NEVER again becomes a terrorist safe haven.”
When asked by a reporter if the incoming or outgoing president should get credit for the deal, Biden responded: “Is that a joke?”
Some foreign policy experts said the agreement should be seen as Netanyahu’s political gift to Trump to curry favor as he prepares to take office in just a few days. They were also quick to caution that the deal doesn’t mean Trump should now be viewed as a strong ally for the Palestinian cause, given some of his Cabinet appointments and decisions during his first term, like recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
“We see Trump really trying to show that he’s different than Biden, and that he’s playing a strong man role, and in this instance, that worked,” said Sandra Tamari, executive director of the Adalah Justice Project. But Tamari cautioned that the details of the agreement are still unknown, such as what concessions may have been negotiated with the Israelis.
The enduring war in Gaza, and the Biden administration’s steadfast support of Israel, has caused political turbulence for Democrats, and came to be a major issue in the presidential campaign. Not only was Vice President Kamala Harris criticized by those calling for a cease-fire to adequately distance herself from Biden on Gaza — she lost support from Arab Americans and college students in Michigan.
Leaders of the Uncommitted movement, who are responsible for organizing the largest protests over the Biden administration’s stance, called the cease-fire “a long-overdue pause in a campaign that has obliterated families, erased neighborhoods, and caused unimaginable suffering.” The group cited a recent YouGov poll that found 29 percent of non-voters who supported Biden in 2020 cited ending the war in Gaza as the main reason they chose not to vote for Harris.
Trump benefited from that fracturing of the Democratic base over Gaza. He picked up a surge in support in Dearborn, Michigan, home to a large population of Muslims with familial ties to the Middle East. Arab leaders in Dearborn, however, cautioned that that swing was not an endorsement of Trump but rather a rejection of Harris and the Democratic party’s embrace of Israel.
“Today’s announcement is welcome news to all of us that this cycle of violence will end,” said Sam Baydoun, Wayne County Commissioner in Dearborn. But he added that he feels “disappointed” that this was the same deal proposed in May but the Biden administration failed to successfully pressure Netanyahu to accept it until now.
“Thousands of innocent civilians could have been spared if we had implemented this cease-fire back in May,” he said.
Source: Even progressives think Trump deserves some credit for the ceasefire - POLITICO
Even progressives think Trump deserves some credit for the ceasefire
Critics of Biden’s approach to negotiations with Israel say the deal should have happened much earlier.President-elect Donald Trump was quick to take credit for the cease-fire struck Wednesday between Israel and Hamas — and progressive critics of the Biden administration’s approach to the conflict were quick to give it to him.
Pro-Palestinian activists and progressives argued that the agreement, which comes after 15 months of war and the deaths of more than 46,000 Palestinians, should have happened sooner. Trump was able to do what President Joe Biden did not in more than a year of talks, some said, pressuring Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to withdraw military forces from the Gaza Strip.
“[Trump] made clear he wanted this war to end and pressed Netanyahu on it in a way that Biden clearly wasn’t willing to do,” said Matt Duss, executive vice president of the Center for International Policy.
Though the broad outline of the deal hasn’t changed much, the context has. Biden is departing, and Netanyahu might be eager to take a different approach with the next administration. “Trump has made clear what he wants, he has his own priorities, and I think it was clearly the unconditional support that Biden gave that provided cover for Netanyahu to continue to prosecute this war, and also that there would be no costs for ignoring either private or public criticisms from the United States,” said Duss, a former foreign policy aide for Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.). “That calculus has changed.”
Still, some of those leaders cautioned they’re skeptical the agreement will lead to a permanent end to the war — and that Israel will abide by its terms. Under the deal, which needs to be approved by the Israeli Cabinet, dozens of hostages will be released and a six-week pause in fighting will start Sunday.
Speaking from the White House, Biden said he was pleased to announce the agreement “at long last” and that the terms of the deal resemble an offer he made in May. The cease-fire is a high point for Biden as he works to cement his legacy in the waning days of his presidency.
Yet Trump, whose team was involved in the final days of talks, got out in front of the White House and posted about the deal before Biden officials made it public. On the campaign trail, Trump repeatedly promised that it would be his leadership that would bring a stop to the conflict.
“This EPIC ceasefire agreement could have only happened as a result of our Historic Victory in November, as it signaled to the entire World that my Administration would seek Peace and negotiate deals to ensure the safety of all Americans, and our Allies,” he posted on Truth Social.
Trump added that his incoming Middle East envoy, Steve Witkoff, who was participating in talks in the lead-up to the agreement, would continue “to work closely with Israel and our Allies to make sure Gaza NEVER again becomes a terrorist safe haven.”
When asked by a reporter if the incoming or outgoing president should get credit for the deal, Biden responded: “Is that a joke?”
Some foreign policy experts said the agreement should be seen as Netanyahu’s political gift to Trump to curry favor as he prepares to take office in just a few days. They were also quick to caution that the deal doesn’t mean Trump should now be viewed as a strong ally for the Palestinian cause, given some of his Cabinet appointments and decisions during his first term, like recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
“We see Trump really trying to show that he’s different than Biden, and that he’s playing a strong man role, and in this instance, that worked,” said Sandra Tamari, executive director of the Adalah Justice Project. But Tamari cautioned that the details of the agreement are still unknown, such as what concessions may have been negotiated with the Israelis.
The enduring war in Gaza, and the Biden administration’s steadfast support of Israel, has caused political turbulence for Democrats, and came to be a major issue in the presidential campaign. Not only was Vice President Kamala Harris criticized by those calling for a cease-fire to adequately distance herself from Biden on Gaza — she lost support from Arab Americans and college students in Michigan.
Leaders of the Uncommitted movement, who are responsible for organizing the largest protests over the Biden administration’s stance, called the cease-fire “a long-overdue pause in a campaign that has obliterated families, erased neighborhoods, and caused unimaginable suffering.” The group cited a recent YouGov poll that found 29 percent of non-voters who supported Biden in 2020 cited ending the war in Gaza as the main reason they chose not to vote for Harris.
Trump benefited from that fracturing of the Democratic base over Gaza. He picked up a surge in support in Dearborn, Michigan, home to a large population of Muslims with familial ties to the Middle East. Arab leaders in Dearborn, however, cautioned that that swing was not an endorsement of Trump but rather a rejection of Harris and the Democratic party’s embrace of Israel.
“Today’s announcement is welcome news to all of us that this cycle of violence will end,” said Sam Baydoun, Wayne County Commissioner in Dearborn. But he added that he feels “disappointed” that this was the same deal proposed in May but the Biden administration failed to successfully pressure Netanyahu to accept it until now.
“Thousands of innocent civilians could have been spared if we had implemented this cease-fire back in May,” he said.
Source: Even progressives think Trump deserves some credit for the ceasefire - POLITICO
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Yes, I agree. It's basically the same as Biden's but it's only happening now because Bibi is afraid of what Trump might do.
But it does nothing to solve the underlying issues.
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That surprised me because it seemed like Trump was going to continue appeasing Bibi.
However, I'm all for using fear tactics to compel compliance. Bibi almost sounds like he hopes Hamas doesn't release the hostages so he can continue the genocide.
Of course, and Bibi wasted no time pushing his one-sided version of events. He also seemed quite pleased with himself, stating "We changed the face of the Middle East."
I condemn the terrorist actions of Hamas, but I also condemning occupation, apartheid, and the extreme overreaction of genocide.
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Well, Bibi ignored all the warnings he received that October 7th was coming. So, yeah, he wants any excuse.
Oliver Stone was criticized for interviewing both Putin and Castro, but had a certain respect for them. In contrast, Stone considered Bibi "a madman" after interviewing him. (Scorpio Risings, every last one of 'em).
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I've been expecting the other shoe to drop, and now Trump's revealed that he wants the remaining Palestinians to be resettled in Jordan and Egypt.
What he's advocating is the ethnic cleansing of Gaza, which was likely the primary objective of this genocide from the beginning. Trump's son in law Jared Kushner has business dealings in Israel, and he said, "I think proactively recognizing a Palestinian state would essentially be rewarding an act of terror that was perpetrated to Israel, so it's a super bad idea in that regard." As Jimmy Dore rightly pointed out, the original act of terror was the Nakba (the displacement of the Palestinian people that occurred in 1948 as a result of establishing the State of Israel.) While it's great that there's a ceasefire (for now,) this is looking like a land grab opportunity for Israel and their partners in the West.
Trump Calls For ETHNIC CLEANSING Of Gaza!
What he's advocating is the ethnic cleansing of Gaza, which was likely the primary objective of this genocide from the beginning. Trump's son in law Jared Kushner has business dealings in Israel, and he said, "I think proactively recognizing a Palestinian state would essentially be rewarding an act of terror that was perpetrated to Israel, so it's a super bad idea in that regard." As Jimmy Dore rightly pointed out, the original act of terror was the Nakba (the displacement of the Palestinian people that occurred in 1948 as a result of establishing the State of Israel.) While it's great that there's a ceasefire (for now,) this is looking like a land grab opportunity for Israel and their partners in the West.
Trump Calls For ETHNIC CLEANSING Of Gaza!
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Genocide Jerry and Cowardly Kimmel get punked...
Jerry Seinfeld's CALLOUSNESS Exposed by Pro-Palestine "Fan" - YouTube
Jerry Seinfeld's CALLOUSNESS Exposed by Pro-Palestine "Fan" - YouTube
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Their responses were terrible, but I feel like that's to be expected from members of the Hollywood elite. Kimmel in particular sold his soul to the genocide-supporting Dems.
The one that really disappointed me was Russell Brand. He created this subversive persona, and now he's defending an elitist douche like Jerry Seinfeld.
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