How do you interpret the number of seasons?

[Werewillie Oleson]

1. 14 (all of it)
2. 13 (excluding the 5 part first series)
3. 13 (excluding the non-canon dream season)
4. 12 (excluding both the mini-series and the dream season)

options 5 to 8: add 3 if you want to include the Next Generation Dallas.

 

[James from London]

2. 13 (excluding the 5 part first series)

The first time I saw a list of episodes was in the first Dallas Annual, which classed the mini-series and the 78/9 season as Season 1, which is also how it was originally shown in the UK, and so I've always just gone with that - which makes 79/80 Season 2, and so on. It was only through the internet that I found out other people class the seasons differently. So for the sake of clarity, if I'm posting about the first five episodes on the forum, I'll usually refer to them as the mini-series.

New Dallas is just New Dallas, a thing of beauty unto itself.

 

[Werewillie Oleson]

If this quote from wiki is 100% accurate then I'm having a technical issue with the mini-series label.

The television show Dallas originally aired as a five-episode miniseries starting on the first Sunday of April 1978. These five episodes were originally intended to be the show's pilot but by the time they aired, it was thought that no further episodes would be made.

Because if they thought no further episodes would be made, or if there was no hope for a continuation, then it still implies that it was a possibility.
This contradicts my personal interpretation of the mini-series format as it was introduced in America in the 1970s: a series that plays out like an extended movie, usually based on a novel which made a continuation impossible. Meaning that "thought" and "hope" about a continuation are irrelevant.

Of course it did happen e.g. Rich Man, Poor Man II (not based on the sequel novel) and the soap opera continuation of Bare Essence.
In this case I find it easier to make the distinction between mini-series and seasons.
However, since there was no prospect of a continuation after those first 5 Dallas episodes then it's hard to classify it as a season at the time of original broadcasting.

If Dallas had been a European production then this discussion wouldn't exist because
a) we didn't have mini-series in our vocabulary (we only watched them)
and
b) we didn't have seasons
All parts of Dallas would be called "series" (1 to 14)
And since I happen to be European (not the sleazy villainous kind as usually depicted in bigoted American series) I find it easier to translate that into seasons 1 to 14.

But it gets even more complicated. When I watch the first 5 Dallas episodes featuring that awesome ranch then it still feels like a unique thing with a dark but very satisfying ending, despite the story not being serialised in a traditional way.

 

[Spooky Owl!]

Okay, I'll bite. Again.

There have always been two counting methods for the DALLAS seasons. Old TV GUIDEs and CBS press releases have always reflected this 14 season count-- but even TVGUIDE was inconsistent (or, at least, ambivalent) because when DALLAS ended in May 1991, the magazine referred to "13 years" (not 13 "seasons") on the cover while still continuing to use the "14 season" count inside the pages. (And DALLAS had, indeed, run 13 years and a month)

DALLAS' 5-episode "miniseries" (as the cast and fans usually call it) was, in fact, originally intended to be a 5-episode pilot of sorts, airing April 1978.

That was followed by thirteen full seasons.

And this is where the confusion begins: Because the miniseries/5-episode-pilot aired near the end of the 1977-'78 official TV season, and is thus separate from the 13 subsequent full seasons, American industry standards consider that miniseries from April 1978 to be "Season 1" (and always has, as reflected by CBS press statements and the inside of TV GUIDE) despite its brevity. (Find a copy from November 1980 and it tells you, in the DALLAS listing, that the series is beginning its "fourth season" as opposed to its third -- and refers to it in this manner, using the 1 thru 14 count, throughout the program's run.... regardless of how that final cover in 1991 phrases it).

So it creates conflict. And it can confuse fans as to which year one is referring.

But some folks get their back up about the topic, insisting -- or believing -- that the 1-thru-14 count only began in 2004 when the DVDs started coming out, accusing Warners of "changing" the count blasphemously for cynical marketing purposes (which isn't really true at all .... not that they're above doing so, of course).

One site member here even felt the need, years ago when the topic came up, to insist that "CBS later apologized" for the "erroneous" 1-thru-14 count (which that poster completely made up in order to "prove" his point in defending the miniseries-thru-S13 count he'd preferred).

Some of us enjoyed a good laugh, and a fine time was had.

Anyway, for further clarification on the issue, we could ask @Barbara Fan .

 

[Spooky Owl!]

And since I happen to be European (not the sleazy villainous kind as usually depicted in bigoted American series) I find it easier to translate that into seasons 1 to 14.

But you called PeeWee the DevilBus "Eurotrash" before any of the rest of us ever dared!!

But it gets even more complicated. When I watch the first 5 Dallas episodes featuring that awesome ranch then it still feels like a unique thing with a dark but very satisfying ending, despite the story not being serialised in a traditional way.

I always love the "ruthless but gracious parents" reference.

Oh, it was a different time.

 

[Sea - Boo! - Er]

Having originally seen the miniseries as just that - a self-contained presentation - I originally considered Dallas to have 13 proper seasons. But I've become quite comfortable calling it 14 now. It certainly simplifies matters.

 

[Spooky Owl!]

Having originally seen the miniseries as just that - a self-contained presentation - I originally considered Dallas to have 13 proper seasons. But I've become quite comfortable calling it 14 now. It certainly simplifies matters.

The miniseries from 1978 is great in that it gives us that wonderful forlorn '70s ambiance which is a terrific place to begin such a saga -- a melancholy flavor not as obvious (there, but less apparent) during Seasons 2 & 3 if only because the 1978 miniseries was filmed entirely on location, and in the winter.

Comparable, in a way, to the quietly majestic 3-hour pilot for DYNASTY which was shot in 1980 (the last hurrah of the '70s) and quite distinct -- and way better -- than the subsequent '80s series would eventually unfold. (Seasons 1, 2 and 9 were just fine, however, for those not familiar with that show).

One of the things I like about episode 2 of the DALLAS miniseries focusing on Lucy's slutty shenanigans (a flawed installment David Jacobs decries, mostly correctly, as "awful") is, aside from the wonderful snowy motif, the shots inside the school hallway -- which really does look like real teens in 1978.


I googled "box ranch snow 1978 lucy southfork" so I could post a little picture, but this was what I got:

 

[Chris2]

I don’t like calling the spring 1978 season a “miniseries” because in the US at the time, miniseries were generally multipart presentations with a continuing story, with each episode being two hours long. “Dallas”, OTOH, had five self-contained, hour-long episodes. It wasn’t unusual for show’s to have short spring tryout seasons back then (see “Three’s Company”, “Family” and others).

”Dallas” was unusual in that there was no single pilot episode shot separately as a test for the network, with the other episodes shot later. All five episodes of the spring 1978 season were shot consecutively. So it was really a five-episode pilot. Very unusual. And the intent was always to try to get a full season order for the fall of 1978. It wasn’t ever intended to be one and done.

 

[Werewillie Oleson]

But you called PeeWee the DevilBus "Eurotrash" before any of the rest of us ever dared!!

I am European therefore it's okay for me to say the E-word.

 

[Crimson]

For as many years as I've kicked around here, I didn't know this was controversial or even a subject of disagreement. An American TV season only consisting of 5 episodes is unusual of course, but TV shows with short first seasons are not unheard of. (See: BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER.) So, 14 seasons with 3 in the separate continuation series.

Now what I acknowledge is another matter. I've long regarded anything after S8 to be apocrypha best to be forgotten, but that's just my own head canon.

 

[Spooky Owl!]

Now what I acknowledge is another matter. I've long regarded anything after S8 to be apocrypha best to be forgotten, but that's just my own head canon.

But I can't live without Season 10...!

 

[Guzzler’s Frightening Hair]

to me the “miniseries” is an extended pilot and the ensuing season at the new Southfork is “the first full season”. It just doesn’t feel like a Season 2 as it stumbles around a bit trying to find its footing. (the unsurpassable brilliance of Fallen Idol notwithstanding, of course)

For some reason then I feel fine with calling the Alan Beam season “Season 3”, and the who shot JR/creepy stock music/Takapa year “Season 4”, but the numbering is a bit of a blur after that - much easier to associate seasons with major events/storylines “battle for Ewing Oil”, “young Peter Richards”, “Donna Reed and Jamie”, etc.

Then it’s the Dream Season and Season 10 and 11, and “a bunch of nonsense” after that.

What’s that, like 12.1 seasons? I’d make a lousy archivist.

 

[Barbara On A Broomstick]

Dallas - In UK - was the mini season (Episodes 1-5)

Then ran for 13 seasons - so JR shot at end of S2, Bobby S6, dream season S8, Bobby returned S9 and was never called anything else until WB came along and made you think you were getting 2 whole seasons when in fact you were getting mini and S1 on DVD

All the 1980s Dallas books go by this numbering inc Laura Van Wormer and even a more recent 25 years of Dallas by Barbara Curran does also

 

[Spooky Owl!]

Some people have preferences. Some of us have prejudices.

 

[Piggyrella Sanderson]

But you called PeeWee the DevilBus "Eurotrash" before any of the rest of us ever dared!!

And just like that...

"Please bring the salts!!!"​

 

[Werewillie Oleson]

to me the “miniseries” is an extended pilot

Yes, but the same could be said of the shorter first season of Knots Landing.
When the future of a series is unknown, than the first series of episodes is always a tryout, and it only becomes a "first" season, retroactively, when it's followed by a second series of episodes. If that doesn't happen then you have A series/season of episodes, but not the first.
If these one-season seasons must be numbered then it's actually season zero.

 

[Guzzler’s Frightening Hair]

Yes, but the same could be said of the shorter first season of Knots Landing.
When the future of a series is unknown, than the first series of episodes is always a tryout, and it only becomes a "first" season, retroactively, when it's followed by a second series of episodes. If that doesn't happen then you have A series/season of episodes, but not the first.
If these one-season seasons must be numbered then it's actually season zero.

The first season of Knots is a lot like the first Southfork season of Dallas — self-contained episodes, finding its footing, the occasional “wtf were they thinking?” oddity like the “biker invasion” and Lucy running away and Bobby getting kidnapped by a ragtag trio of semi-nitwits. I wouldn’t be surprised if the never-again-seen Fairgate daughter ran away with the first Cousin Jimmy.

Throw in a 5 episode “Season 0” with a much bigger, inexplicably snowy cul-de-sac and it would be nearly indistinguishable.

Cosmic Steeple weren’t in the same league as the Coffins, though.

 

[Spells & Karma]

Because the miniseries/5-episode-pilot aired near the end of the 1977-'78 official TV season, and is thus separate from the 13 subsequent full seasons, American industry standards consider that miniseries from April 1978 to be "Season 1" (and always has, as reflected by CBS press statements and the inside of TV GUIDE) despite its brevity.

Meanwhile, Dallas's WB stablemate Wonder Woman has kind of has opposite thing going on, where the series is classed as having fewer seasons than it technically had. The New, Original Wonder Woman TV film from April 1975 and the two specials that followed the next spring are generally classed as the first part of Season One, which ran through to February 1977, so that's almost two years' worth forming one season.

Since the final two episodes of Season Three debuted many months after the series ended, it aired across five TV seasons, but I've only ever seen it counted as three.

All five episodes of the spring 1978 season were shot consecutively. So it was really a five-episode pilot.

Yes, that makes perfect sense to me.

Yes, but the same could be said of the shorter first season of Knots Landing.

Yes. But to me even the actual Pilot of Knots (that first episode) feels somewhat separated from the rest of the season, what with the different opening titles and details such as the newly turfed lawns and Gary's changing haircut giving it a different tone.






As far as the original question, I had no concept of what number season I was watching back in the day. I became a regular viewer after the Southwark fire, but at the time I had no real idea how many years had gone before it.

I tend to lean towards the Mini/Pilot Series and Thirteen full seasons, but I must confess there's usually a brief, practically unconscious process of back-formation in my head where I end up subtracting 1 from the DVD numbering. So it's arguably a win for both.

 

[Werewillie Oleson]

Yes. But to me even the actual Pilot of Knots (that first episode) feels somewhat separated from the rest of the season, what with the different opening titles

Was this only used for the first episode

to be continued with the uglier one that was also used for season 2?



DYNASTY should have kept the white font (only one episode?) because it looks more snowy sophisticated.

And if OIL originally aired as a three hour movie (according to wiki) does that mean that episode 4 is actually episode 1?


And this is a no-brainer even though it looks a bit cluttered. Has the "II" ever been used in another TV series? (excluding BOOK II, BOOK III etc)

(actors names had the yellow font, like DYNASTY II)

 

[Sea - Boo! - Er]

I don’t like calling the spring 1978 season a “miniseries” because in the US at the time, miniseries were generally multipart presentations with a continuing story, with each episode being two hours long.

I should mention that the five episodes were first shown in Australia (or at least in Melbourne) over three nights running for two hours on two of those nights, so it did have the vibe of a "miniseries" at that time.