Joan Crawford: Not the Girl-Next-Door

[Willie Oleson]

I haven't seen that many JC films but HARIET CRAIG looks pretty decent and it's the kind of melodrama that still worked in the 1980s soaps.

QUEEN BEE is HARIET CRAIG on steroids, it's horrible, doesn't make any sense and it's no fun at all.
At the very least, STRAIT-JACKET has some cult value.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

I haven't seen that many JC films but HARIET CRAIG looks pretty decent and it's the kind of melodrama that still worked in the 1980s soaps.

QUEEN BEE is HARIET CRAIG on steroids, it's horrible, doesn't make any sense and it's no fun at all.
At the very least, STRAIT-JACKET has some cult value.

Well, QUEEN BEE is a bad film...

 

[Crimson]

QUEEN BEE is one of those films that some fans claim to love as "camp" or "so bad it's good", but the appeal of those films is always lost on me. I've never found ineptitude to be entertaining and QUEEN BEE is an inept film. The idea of QUEEN BEE is better than the actuality of QUEEN BEE. The idea of Joan as a bitch dominating her family seems like a great premise for a soapy melodrama -- I mean, that's just FALCON CREST twenty-five years early, right? -- but the movie just isn't good.

 

[Willie Oleson]

QUEEN BEE is one of those films that some fans claim to love as "camp" or "so bad it's good", but the appeal of those films is always lost on me

The original meaning of camp was intentionally flamboyant and exaggerated.
I don't know when it changed to unintentional, or why, and then after a while they started to stage/fake that unintentional camp which is absolutely the worst.

Awesomely bad films exist and the appeal is not just in the ineptitude (like most bad films) but also in the complete lack of awareness of how bad it is.
Untalented people with enough money to fund a film, combined with the delusional approach to what makes a film a good film (or just watchable) often results in hilarious overacting and all kinds of shoddy techniques.
Obviously, these are not the kind of conditions you'd expect to see in a Joan Crawford or any typical Hollywood film, and when it happens it's mostly just disappointing.

The idea of Joan as a bitch dominating her family seems like a great premise for a soapy melodrama -- I mean, that's just FALCON CREST twenty-five years early, right?

Angela Channing has the leverage, Eva Phillips has not. It's not her mill, she's just an in-law with a bad attitude. It's the equivalent of Sue Ellen terrorising the Ewings based on a "just because" premise.
Not once did I get the impression that she actually had any kind of power, she doesn't even blackmail any of the characters.
There's a blink and you'll miss it suicide but perhaps it was better to ignore it because the reason for that suicide is seriously questionable.
Lovely cousin Jennifer with the squeaky voice is top level hateable. I wanted Joan to stamp her to death.
It's just failure on top of failure and it goes on and on.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

The original meaning of camp was intentionally flamboyant and exaggerated.
I don't know when it changed to unintentional, or why, and then after a while they started to stage/fake that unintentional camp which is absolutely the worst.

Susan Sontag?

It's the equivalent of Sue Ellen terrorising the Ewings based on a "just because" premise.

Yes. It is. 39 years later. Once Sue Ellen threw off the "I'm-a-nice-person" crap and unleashed the uber-bitch she really was!

 

[Willie Oleson]

Yes. It is. 39 years later. Once Sue Ellen threw off the "I'm-a-nice-person" crap and unleashed the uber-bitch she really was!

We're not on the same wavelength here but that's all right.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

At the very least, STRAIT-JACKET has some cult value.

That doesn't salvage it either.

Honestly, the only problem I have with either QUEEN BEE and STRAIT-JACKET -- and it's a big problem -- is the direction. Direction is a big deal, and Ranald McDougall and William Castle simply were not up to the task. (McDougall had never directed before, and B-movie maestro Castle gave C-level direction for the axe-murder movie).

I don't even blame the scripts so much (although Robert Bloch wasn't really a screenwriter, known mostly for the book version of PSYCHO, and ends too many STRAIT-JACKET scenes with lines like, "You understand -- don't you....?"). The direction for these pictures is just hapless, while Joan, naturally, directs herself -- and very well.

The casts don't really need mush adjustment. Just tighter direction. (And, obviously, a different cameraman for STRAIT-JACKET, as the photography is appalling).


"I forgot why I came in here...."

We're not on the same wavelength here but that's all right.

Snob!!

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Should Polanski have kept Joan's cameo in ROSEMARY'S BABY?

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Do we have an 'MGM Years' thread for Joan.

Here's some sass about LETTY:

 

[Crimson]

Should Polanski have kept Joan's cameo in ROSEMARY'S BABY?

A blink and miss it cameo wouldn't offer much, imo. I will admit I have sometimes pondered Joan as Mrs Castevet. Obviously Joan could never have matched Ruth Gordon's eccentric, funny and creepy performance. Sometimes you need a character actress not a movie queen. But then ... Joan gave what I think was her best performance around the same time, under another budding New Hollywood director. What might have Polanski gotten from her? More conventional than Gordon's certainly, but I still find the prospect intriguing.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

A blink and miss it cameo wouldn't offer much, imo. I will admit I have sometimes pondered Joan as Mrs Castevet. Obviously Joan could never have matched Ruth Gordon's eccentric, funny and creepy performance. Sometimes you need a character actress not a movie queen. But then ... Joan gave what I think was her best performance around the same time, under another budding New Hollywood director. What might have Polanski gotten from her? More conventional than Gordon's certainly, but I still find the prospect intriguing.

Did Ruth Gordon and Burgess Meredith ever make a movie together? Even a TWILIGHT ZONE?

 

[Crimson]

I only know Meredith as the Penguin, Rocky's coach and the grumpiest old man.

 

[ClassyCo]

One of Joan's earliest sound films, OUR BLUSHING BRIDES (1930), a sequel of sorts to OUR DANCING DAUGHTERS (1928) and OUR MODERN MAIDENS (1929), is available you-know-where. The movie was made at the dawn of the talkie era when Crawford was voted the biggest box office draw in America.

 

[ClassyCo]

You will notice that I had the subtitle changed from "The Warner Brothers Era" into "Not the Girl-Next-Door", considering this conversation has come to banner the entirety of Crawford's screen career, which is perfectly fine.

I borrowed "Not the Girl-Next-Door" from the "personal biography" penned by Charlotte Chandler. I find that referencing of Joan to be quite fitting of the image she so carefully crafted, nutured, protected, and played right until the very end. That "Joan Crawford" image, as we know it, has carried into the 21st-century, as she remains one of the most iconic and well-known personalities from Hollywood's Golden Age.

Diane Baker and Gloria DeHaven, both who knew Crawford well, have said in interviews that Crawford was always the star and encouraged them both to never leave their homes without dressing the way the public wanted to see them. Myrna Loy has said Joan was "stardom's most diligent student", who worked tirelessly to find the image she wanted to present to the public. And it was that image, despite morphing into different phases, that made her the superstar she was. She was the embodiment of glamour.

She definitely was not the girl-next-door.

 

[ClassyCo]

Should Polanski have kept Joan's cameo in ROSEMARY'S BABY?

A blink and miss it cameo wouldn't offer much, imo. I will admit I have sometimes pondered Joan as Mrs Castevet. Obviously Joan could never have matched Ruth Gordon's eccentric, funny and creepy performance. Sometimes you need a character actress not a movie queen. But then ... Joan gave what I think was her best performance around the same time, under another budding New Hollywood director. What might have Polanski gotten from her? More conventional than Gordon's certainly, but I still find the prospect intriguing.

Some insight into Crawford's alleged cameo in ROSEMARY'S BABY:

The Concluding Chapter of Crawford

A comprehensive research guide to Joan Crawford's life

www.theconcludingchapterofcrawford.com

 

[ClassyCo]

One of Joan's earliest sound films, OUR BLUSHING BRIDES (1930), a sequel of sorts to OUR DANCING DAUGHTERS (1928) and OUR MODERN MAIDENS (1929), is available you-know-where. The movie was made at the dawn of the talkie era when Crawford was voted the biggest box office draw in America.

I have tried watching this, and while I haven't entirely given up on finishing it, I must admit it is a bit of a drag. It's a very early sound film, and if you can get past some of the acting, the creekiness of the dialogue, and the crackily camera, you might be alright.

As I say, I haven't given up on it, but it's going to be a slow go.

 

[ClassyCo]

Do we have an 'MGM Years' thread for Joan.

Here's some sass about LETTY:

I've watched this twice now, and I must admit, I never knew the legal case leading up to and following LETTY LYNTON (1932) was so intense. To be fair, I never did much digging into what made everyone file the lawsuits in the first place, but I knew it had something to do with plagiarism. I also didn't know the movie had as many censorship problems as it did.

I'm anxiously waiting to finally own this movie and to watch it. I'm hoping they do rerelease it in some theaters and I get to see it for the first time on the big screen.

 

[ClassyCo]

Somehow I'm always surprised that QUEEN BEE is in B&W; why do I remember it in color? Maybe that's my problem with it; it's too far removed from the noir-ish melodramas of the 40s, but doesn't really embrace the lush melodramas of the mid-50s either.

Shame Joan didn't appear in a Douglas Sirk film. I admit I've never been wild about Jane Wyman and I'd happily swap Joan into ALL THAT HEAVEN ALLOWS.

It is a shame Joan never worked with Sirk. Her style of acting and his style of drama seems to paint them as an ideal duo. Perhaps QUEEN BEE would've worked better had Sirk been the mastermind behind-the-camera and had it been shot in color.

Lucy Marlow

Just for kicks, I decided to do a little digging into the life of actress Lucy Marlow because, to my knowledge, I've never seen her in a single thing outside of QUEEN BEE. After looking at her list of acting credits, it's certainly understandable why I've never seen her in anything else... IMDb lists just 16 acting credits for her.

She was born in Los Angeles in 1932, and her first acting experience came from the Pasadena Playhouse. Her screen career began in 1954 with the Doris Day film LUCKY ME, followed by small roles in A STAR IS BORN (1954), MY SISTER EILEEN (1955), and the aforementioned QUEEN BEE. After 1956, what few credits she has on on television Westerns, like GUNSMOKE (1959), TALES OF WELLS FARGO (1960), and SHOTGUN SLADE (1961). Her career never really took off, with her last acting role being in a 1975 episode of THE BLUE KNIGHT.

Marlow was married to professional baseball player Andy Carey from 1955 through 1974. They had a son together, James, in 1956, who passed away in a car wreck in 1980 when he was 23. Marlow died in Beaumont, California in 2018 at age 86.

 

[Toni]

It is a shame Joan never worked with Sirk. Her style of acting and his style of drama seems to paint them as an ideal duo. Perhaps QUEEN BEE would've worked better had Sirk been the mastermind behind-the-camera and had it been shot in color.

I don't know... Lauren Bacall was a fine, elegant actress but Dorothy Malone didn't let her shine in Written on the Wind... Oscar included. Never knew if she was well directed or not at all... Would that have happened with Joannie?

Malone's role was a precedent for both Sue Ellen and Kristin.

 

[ClassyCo]

Joan Crawford, Norma Shearer, Rosalind Russell, Paulette Goddard, and Joan Fontaine from THE WOMEN (1939).