Marlon Brando: Appreciating "Mr. Mumbles"

[ginnyfan]

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

I think about Frank Sinatra calling him "mumbles". Brando and Sinatra co-starred together in GUYS AND DOLLS, and they were not close. Rumors abound that they feuded (using that term loosely) on the set of the picture.

I'm quite sure it was a one-sided "feud". Brando really didn't like to fight face-to-face, and probably wound up just exhausted over Frank Sinatra's contemptuous lack of a sense of humor (and his terminal fiancée, Lauren Bacall, said in a '70s TV interview Frank indeed lacked a sense of humor -- like she's one to talk). Brando couldn't really sing, and never denied it, but he was too hot at the time for the studio not to insert him into GUYS AND DOLLS. Sinatra would have been fine with Brando's lack of vocal skills, but Sinatra loved being the slap-you-on-the-back Chairman of the Board while Brando loved to poke holes in such pretentions.

So it couldn't have worked. Nichelle Nichols complained that Sinatra "wanted to be found fascinating," and if you didn't, you'd experience his dark side. (Paul Anka wrote a book a few years ago, conceding that Frank's nasty side became more evident as he aged. Which smells true. But Anka also claimed Sinatra and Dean Martin asserted during a steam room bragging session that Angie Dickinson was the single best lay in all of Hollywood, but Angie herself called Anka a liar because she'd never slept with Martin, a guy not prone to boasting about his actual conquests, let alone lie about ones which never happened).

Marlon Brando is one of those Old Hollywood movie stars that's always been tucked away in my mind somewhere. I don't ever remember not knowing who he was, or at least knowing he was a big deal for a really long time. I had a generic pop art picture that I got from a yard sale once that had Marilyn Monroe, James Dean, Elvis Presley, and Marlon Brando pictured at a Hollywood-style diner. It hung on my closet door for years

There was something about those '50s icons whose shadows loomed over the last-half of the twentieth century, even though most of them checked out early. Like the decade itself.

I do thoroughly enjoy A STREETCAR NAMED DESIRE, an early role for him, which perfectly showcases why Hollywood and teenage America went crazy for him.

It may be the single best filming of a stage play ever realized.

I think Brando gave a few spectacular performances early in his career and a couple later on, but otherwise -- like Richard Burton -- he seemed like a lazy actor who coasted by on his fame and reputation.

And, as you said elsewhere, at least Brando had something on which to coast... But Richard Burton?? I always want to like Burton, and have come to appreciate him in BECKET (a film which I was sloooooooow to warm up to, and I rarely tend to change my mind about such things, but eventually was won over by its seance-esque flavor) and he's actually the very best thing in WHO'S AFRAID OF VIRGINIA WOLFE. And THE SPY WHO CAME I FROM THE COLD is a marvelously bleak portrait of Cold War London wrapped in winter's chill. And he and Taylor are at their best camping up Shakespeare in THE TAMING OF THE SHREW in all its chauvinistic glory. But you're always waiting for something more from him.

Very early on, in things like MY COUSIN RACHEL, Burton showed promise. And his youthful looks vanished with shocking speed due, no doubt, to his chronic alcoholism. And yet, despite that obvious potential, there is something somehow depressing, or depressed, about even his best screen performances -- and perhaps that was due to the drinking, too.

So maybe Brando was coasting on his reputation while Burton was coasting on his potential.

To be fair, there was also something depressive about Brando as well, even a wee bit sick-ish. Maybe it was those doughnuts to Burton's booze.

That said, Brando didn't care for Burton. One weekend on Richard and Elizabeth's yacht, Burton continually teased Marlon about all his multi-cultural offspring. Later, Burton probably felt a little guilty, but Brando wasn't having it... In contrast, Burton praised Brando publicly by saying Brando could have been a wonderful silent movie star (well, 80% of them were Aries), but I said the same thing about Alec Baldwin in the '80s (also Aries).

And speaking of Alec Baldwin, he once told Charlie Rose in an interview that the key to real male stardom was the triangular nexus of intelligence, masculinity and vulnerability, citing Brando as a key representation of that dynamic.

I appreciate the discussion about his acting but I just have to post about his hotness. I appreciate the looks of many classic movie stars, but somehow I never find them too sexy or hot, I can't think of them that way. But Brando is different, for some reason. He was so gorgeous and hot. Everyone always moans about him getting ''fat'' or ''big'' later on, which is true for him in older days, but some seem to consider everything post 1960 to be fat Brando which is ridiculous. I love his bulkier, beefy look from late 50s to mid 60s.

It's no wonder Streetcar made him an overnight sensation and changed acting forever. The electrifying hotness of his presence can't be ignored.

You should see Brando's 1948 screen test for REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE. He is sooooo fey.

 

[ClassyCo]

Sacheen Littlefeather, the Native American who picked up his second Oscar at the 1973 awards ceremony and gave a speech, turned out to not be Native American at all, her family members calling her a grifter.

Shocker. The irony of it all just doesn't surprise me.

Brando would have been less likely "to waste his gifts" if Dean had lived and remained competition, but who knows..?

Dean would've provided stiff competition for Brando, that's for sure. In just three films, Dean was heralded a true trend-setter when it came to cinema acting. Those that praise Brando have pointed out how Dean could've possibly surpassed Brando had he made more movies.

Elizabeth Taylor said Montgomery Clift "could've been the biggest star in the world if he made more movies." For me, at their prime, Brando and Dean were better actors than Clift -- although I do like Clift in THE MISFITS (1961), a misunderstood masterpiece.

But Richard Burton

I've never understood all the hype surrounding Burton. Granted, I've only seen a few of his movies, but I've yet to see him give a performance that warrants all the praise he seemed to receive in his heyday. Had it not been for his marriage to Elizabeth Taylor, I seriously doubt he would've gotten the recognition he did. They were big box office stars, that's for sure, but several of their movies aren't very good.

It may be the single best filming of a stage play ever realized.

It is a very good stage-to-screen adaptation.

GUYS AND DOLLS.

The wife and I tried watching this once, but we couldn't get with it. It was terribly long, but we might try it again one of these days.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Dean would've provided stiff competition for Brando, that's for sure. In just three films, Dean was heralded a true trend-setter when it came to cinema acting. Those that praise Brando have pointed out how Dean could've possibly surpassed Brando had he made more movies.

Supposedly, Dean was obsessed with Brando, and Brando purportedly played on that. There are rumors of "a relationship."

But who knows?

Some who knew them balk at the comparison, saying Dean was light and mercurial, Brando was "as heavy as lead." It's the classic Aries Rising (Dean)/Scorpio Rising (Brando) yin-yang dynamic.

It just happens.

Elizabeth Taylor said Montgomery Clift "could've been the biggest star in the world if he made more movies." For me, at their prime, Brando and Dean were better actors than Clift -- although I do like Clift in THE MISFITS (1961), a misunderstood masterpiece.

People don't remember how very famous Clift was at the start of the '50s. Although I'd've preferred Brando in SUDDENLY, LAST SUMMER -- but Elizabeth wanted Monty just as she wanted Roddy McDowall for Octavian in CLEOPTRA (both badly miscast as a result).

And, yes, THE MISFITS is a wonderful picture. Really, really good. Utterly early-'60s in its haunting.

 

[ClassyCo]

Supposedly, Dean was obsessed with Brando, and Brando purportedly played on that. There are rumors of "a relationship."

Dean surprised Brando on the set of DÉSIRÉE, and Brando surprised Dean on the set of EAST OF EDEN. One biography I watched said Dean was a "disciple" to Brando.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

I'm quite sure it was a one-sided "feud". Brando really didn't like to fight face-to-face, and probably wound up just exhausted over Frank Sinatra's contemptuous lack of a sense of humor (and his terminal fiancée, Lauren Bacall, said in a '70s TV interview Frank indeed lacked a sense of humor -- like she's one to talk). Brando couldn't really sing, and never denied it, but he was too hot at the time for the studio not to insert him into GUYS AND DOLLS. Sinatra would have been fine with Brando's lack of vocal skills, but Sinatra loved being the slap-you-on-the-back Chairman of the Board while Brando loved to poke holes in such pretentions.

So it couldn't have worked. Nichelle Nichols complained that Sinatra "wanted to be found fascinating," and if you didn't, you'd experience his dark side. (Paul Anka wrote a book a few years ago, conceding that Frank's nasty side became more evident as he aged. Which smells true. But Anka also claimed Sinatra and Dean Martin asserted during a steam room bragging session that Angie Dickinson was the single best lay in all of Hollywood, but Angie herself called Anka a liar because she'd never slept with Martin, a guy not prone to boasting about his actual conquests, let alone lie about ones which never happened).



There was something about those '50s icons whose shadows loomed over the last-half of the twentieth century, even though most of them checked out early. Like the decade itself.



It may be the single best filming of a stage play ever realized.



And, as you said elsewhere, at least Brando had something on which to coast... But Richard Burton?? I always want to like Burton, and have come to appreciate him in BECKET (a film which I was sloooooooow to warm up to, and I rarely tend to change my mind about such things, but eventually was won over by its seance-esque flavor) and he's actually the very best thing in WHO'S AFRAID OF VIRGINIA WOLFE. And THE SPY WHO CAME I FROM THE COLD is a marvelously bleak portrait of Cold War London wrapped in winter's chill. And he and Taylor are at their best camping up Shakespeare in THE TAMING OF THE SHREW in all its chauvinistic glory. But you're always waiting for something more from him.

Very early on, in things like MY COUSIN RACHEL, Burton showed promise. And his youthful looks vanished with shocking speed due, no doubt, to his chronic alcoholism. And yet, despite that obvious potential, there is something somehow depressing, or depressed, about even his best screen performances -- and perhaps that was due to the drinking, too.

So maybe Brando was coasting on his reputation while Burton was coasting on his potential.

To be fair, there was also something depressive about Brando as well, even a wee bit sick-ish. Maybe it was those doughnuts to Burton's booze.

That said, Brando didn't care for Burton. One weekend on Richard and Elizabeth's yacht, Burton continually teased Marlon about all his multi-cultural offspring. Later, Burton probably felt a little guilty, but Brando wasn't having it... In contrast, Burton praised Brando publicly by saying Brando could have been a wonderful silent movie star (well, 80% of them were Aries), but I said the same thing about Alec Baldwin in the '80s (also Aries).

And speaking of Alec Baldwin, he once told Charlie Rose in an interview that the key to real male stardom was the triangular nexus of intelligence, masculinity and vulnerability, citing Brando as a key representation of that dynamic.



You should see Brando's 1948 screen test for REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE. He is sooooo fey.

I would support Frank Sinatra any day over MB. Frank Sinatra was a complete talent, especially as a total talent who could sing and act
and he had more respect for his audience.
I do think MB became overly self-important, and coasted on his reputation.
It always annoyed me that he was first-billed in the first Superman movie, for a
few minutes of the film. Surely someone else could have played Jor-El.
Al Pacino was more the star of "The Godfather" than he was.
"The Freshmen" (1990) had him spoofing his "Godfather" character and i found it to be disrespectful of
one of the greatest movies in cinematic history.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

I would support Frank Sinatra any day over MB. Frank Sinatra was a complete talent, especially as a total talent who could sing and act
and he had more respect for his audience.

The world is divided into two different camps: those who love Frank Sinatra and those who hate Frank Sinatra.

I just accept him as having once existed. If Angie tolerated him for 45 years, he must not have been that bad.

do think MB became overly self-important, and coasted on his reputation.
It always annoyed me that he was first-billed in the first Superman movie, for a
few minutes of the film. Surely someone else could have played Jor-El.
Al Pacino was more the star of "The Godfather" than he was.
"The Freshmen" (1990) had him spoofing his "Godfather" character and i found it to be disrespectful of
one of the greatest movies in cinematic history.

Billing, top billing, goes to whomever can get it. A number of people carped that Brando received a then-huge $3 million dollars for only 10 minutes of screen time for "this silly movie" (as Brando himself described SUPERMAN). But if somebody thinks you're worth it enough to pay you that much and to bill you at the top, then why not take it?

 

[ClassyCo]

Although I'd've preferred Brando in SUDDENLY, LAST SUMMER -- but Elizabeth wanted Monty

Clift was miscast in SUDDENLY, LAST SUMMER. The movie would've been better with Brando in the role, I'm sure.

The world is divided into two different camps: those who love Frank Sinatra and those who hate Frank Sinatra.

I'm indecisive on Sinatra. My wife likes his singing (but I'm unsure if she's ever seen any of his films), but I just don't have much of an opinion on him despite finding him a little arrogant and self-centered. But aren't many stars?

Billing, top billing, goes to whomever can get it. A number of people carped that Brando received a then-huge $3 million dollars for only 10 minutes of screen time for "this silly movie" (as Brando himself described SUPERMAN). But if somebody thinks you're worth it enough to pay you that much and to bill you at the top, then why not take it?

Many stars have accepted roles that they found "silly" and ones they did simply for the money. Brando was no different. He admitted on many occasions that he made multiple "dogs" during his career.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

The world is divided into two different camps: those who love Frank Sinatra and those who hate Frank Sinatra.

I just accept him as having once existed. If Angie tolerated him for 45 years, he must not have been that bad.



Billing, top billing, goes to whomever can get it. A number of people carped that Brando received a then-huge $3 million dollars for only 10 minutes of screen time for "this silly movie" (as Brando himself described SUPERMAN). But if somebody thinks you're worth it enough to pay you that much and to bill you at the top, then why not take it?

Not a matter of whether someone likes Frank Sinatra, but rather acknowledging what a major impact he had, and still has, on the entertainment world

"Sinatra forged a highly successful career as a film actor. After winning the Academy Award for Best Supporting Actor for From Here to Eternity (1953), he starred in The Man with the Golden Arm (1955) and The Manchurian Candidate (1962). Sinatra also appeared in musicals such as On the Town (1949), Guys and Dolls (1955), High Society (1956), and Pal Joey (1957), which won him a Golden Globe Award. Toward the end of his career, he frequently played detectives, including the title character in Tony Rome (1967). Sinatra received the Golden Globe Cecil B. DeMille Award in 1971. On television, The Frank Sinatra Show began on CBS in 1950, and he continued to make appearances on television throughout the 1950s and 1960s.

In 1983, Sinatra was honored at the Kennedy Center Honors. He was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 1985 and the Congressional Gold Medal in 1997. Sinatra received eleven Grammy Awards including the Grammy Trustees Award, Grammy Legend Award, and the Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award. He was included in Time magazine's compilation of the 20th century's 100 most influential people. American music critic Robert Christgau called him "the greatest singer of the 20th century"[5] and he continues to be regarded as an iconic figure.[6]"

Although he was not on active duty during WW2, he supported the USA as an entertainer.
"... Sinatra entertained the troops during several successful overseas USO tours with comedian Phil Silvers.[112] During one trip to Rome he met the Pope, who asked him if he was an operatic tenor.[113] Sinatra worked frequently with the popular Andrews Sisters in radio in the 1940s,[114] and many USO shows were broadcast to troops via the Armed Forces Radio Service (AFRS).[115]"

Source ;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Sinatra

Having top billed status, yes it is a matter of negotiation and the relative industry power of an ctor.
As a fan of superhero stories, I find Brando's top billing in the Superman movie to be distatsteful,
since I suspect that Brando was not a fan of the genre

 

[ClassyCo]

The Man with the Golden Arm (1955)

I like this movie (which has long been in the public domain), but it's been years since I've seen it. I like Kim Novak in it.

Not a matter of whether someone likes Frank Sinatra, but rather acknowledging what a major impact he had, and still has, on the entertainment world

He was highly influential, that's for sure. I don't deny his impact. I just don't know if I'd call myself a fan.

 

[ClassyCo]

Pal Joey (1957),

I want to re-watch this one. I feel like the wife would like this movie.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

I'm indecisive on Sinatra. My wife likes his singing (but I'm unsure if she's ever seen any of his films), but I just don't have much of an opinion on him despite finding him a little arrogant and self-centered. But aren't many stars?

Certain kinds of men are impressed by those characteristics, seeing Sinatra's swagger and attitude as admirable. Other people find him repellant.

Libra Rising leading man.

He once had a voice, but after the '50s -- okay, the mid-'60s -- his best vocal days were behind him.

I used to know a bartender who worked in posh L.A. bars, and he said Cher, Farrah Fawcett, and Robert Deniro became entitled bitches after only one or two drinks; curiously, he said Frank Sinatra was very sweet, an excellent tipper (which bordered on the vainglorious) and rarely cracked-off unless something -- or someone -- really hit him the wrong way, and when he did, it was usually not without cause.

Brando's many friends found him very sweet-natured as well. Rita Moreno said Brando "was crazy" and Anna Kashfi, an ex-wife whom Brando described as one of the cruelest people he'd ever known, said he was a necrophiliac -- perhaps because he wanted her dead but was still attracted to her.

 

[DallasFanForever]

"The Freshmen" (1990) had him spoofing his "Godfather" character and i found it to be disrespectful of
one of the greatest movies in cinematic history.

Most people felt that way, I know, but I honestly had no problem with it and I’m a huge Godfather fan also. I found it to be quite humorous actually and I didn’t get the impression it was meant to show any disrespect but that’s just my opinion of course.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Most people felt that way, I know, but I honestly had no problem with it and I’m a huge Godfather fan also. I found it to be quite humorous actually and I didn’t get the impression it was meant to show any disrespect but that’s just my opinion of course.

And they had to save that Gila monster!

 

[DallasFanForever]

And they had to save that Gila monster!

Okay, well, if they had cut the head off the Gila and put it in someone’s bed at night then I’d say that’s disrespectful to The Godfather movies. I draw the line there.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Maybe if they had Matthew deliver his lines more like a cocky Ferris Bueller, it would counterbalance Brando reprising his Don Corleone performance.

What would we retitle the movie?

 

[ClassyCo]

 

[DallasFanForever]

What would we retitle the movie?

Don Fresh? Would that work? I always liked the sound of that one.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Jane Fonda rather un-generously asserted that Brando "was not the male Meryl Streep" because of his supposedly lazy approach to playing his characters.

Who would be the Male Streep -- perhaps Dicaprio??

Anna Kashfi, an ex-wife whom Brando described as one of the cruelest people he'd ever known, said he was a necrophiliac -- perhaps because he wanted her dead but was still attracted to her.

Gore Vidal once perfectly impersonated his nemesis, Truman Capote, claiming, "Brando's a necrophiliac --- everybody knows that...!"

In fact, he says it here, at 26:30 ...

But then, Quincy Jones later said: "Brando would f**k a mailbox."

Was it a dead mailbox??

But you know me -- I just don't judge.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

he seemed like a lazy actor who coasted by on his fame and reputation.

he rode on the coattails of his reputation long after he started "phoning in" his performances.

the greatest American film actor of his era, who then gains 300 pounds and takes to taping his lines to the faces of his co-stars, must truly have possessed as much contempt for his industry and profession as he'd always claimed he had.

The last couple of days I've found myself watching some Christopher Reeve interviews. This one, in which he's asked his opinion of Marlon Brando, made me think of this thread. He doesn't hold back!

From 5:49: