Mary Tyler Moore Show and Its Spin-Offs

[ClassyCo]

I've been in a heavy MARY TYLER MOORE mood recently. Last night, I watched four episodes, three to which I've never seen before. These episodes were refreshing and made me laugh out loud numerous times. The writing and the performances were top-notch, and my admiration for this show continues to grow.

"Rhoda's Sister Gets Married" (Season 4, Episode 3)​

I'd be willing to be that this episode was an attempt by the producers to familiarize the audience with Rhoda's family before igniting a spin-off for the character. I've always liked Rhoda and Valerie Harper in particular, and therefore any episode centering on her I know I'd like. It was interesting seeing Nancy Walker and Harold Gould playing Rhoda's parents, both who ended up with recurring roles on GOLDEN GIRLS the following decade. It was a funny episode and I like the banter Harper and Walker share, with poor Moore stuck in the middle. Some good, funny stuff.​

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"Father's Day" (Season 4, Episode 6)​

Ted's father -- who abandoned him and his mother when he was like two -- pops back into his life, tries to develop a relationship, and asks his son for money. Ted isn't sure where the relationship will go, or if he even wants a relationship with the father he never knew. Georgette, Rhoda, and Mary try to urge Ted to give his father a chance. I don't always like the Ted-centric episodes. I think Ted does better in smaller doses. When he's the focal point, he just gets a little too much sometimes.​

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"Mary's Aunt" (Season 6, Episode 6)​

As luck would have it, Mary's aunt is Flo Meredith (guest star Eileen Heckart), a renowned journalist. Mary really wants Lou to get along with Flo, but the two don't initially hit it off. Things work out well in the end when Lou apologizes for his behavior and he and Flo go out for an evening of dancing.​

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"Chuckles Bites the Dust" (Season 6, Episode 7)​

I mean... who doesn't like this episode? If you're a fan of this show, you have to like this one. It has some delicious moments and everyone is on the top of their game. There's a perfect build-up and everyone's got their own little moment to shine. No wonder this episode is routinely ranked among the best in the history of TV.​

 

[Chris2]

I always liked Eileen Heckart. She turned up as Flo in an episode of the “Lou Grant” spinoff (the only other MTM alumnus to appear in that series). She also played Mary’s mother in the short-lived “Annie McGuire” series in the late 1980s.

 

[ClassyCo]

I always liked Eileen Heckart.

I like her too. I always remember her as Marilyn Monroe's buddy Vera in BUS STOP (1956).

They worked very well together. Their scenes together were cute and they seemed like a real pair of friends. Vera supported Cherie in her dreams of being famous and going big in Hollywood. She also tried to help her find a suitable beau.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Betty White Died: December 31, 2021 (age 99) in Los Angeles, California, USA
Ed Asner Died: August 29, 2021 (age 91) in Tarzana, California, USA
Gavin MacLeod Died: May 29, 2021 (age 90) in Palm Desert, California, USA
Cloris Leachman Died: January 27, 2021 (age 94) in Encinitas, California, USA
Valerie Harper Died: August 30, 2019 (age 80) in Los Angeles, California, USA
Georgia Engel Died: April 12, 2019 (age 70) in Princeton, New Jersey, USA
Mary Tyler Moore Died: January 25, 2017 (age 80) in Greenwich, Connecticut, USA
Ted Knight Died: August 26, 1986 (age 62) in Los Angeles, California, USA

 

[AndyB2008]

I always liked Eileen Heckart. She turned up as Flo in an episode of the “Lou Grant” spinoff (the only other MTM alumnus to appear in that series). She also played Mary’s mother in the short-lived “Annie McGuire” series in the late 1980s.

She was also in the short lived CBS sitcom The 5 Mrs Buchanans, created by Jamie Wooten and Marc Cherry, and shown by Channel 4 later.

Also in the cast was Beth Broderick, later Zelda Spellman in Sabrina. That show sucked later after she and Caroline Rhea left.

(Did Paula Hart not like anyone daring to be more popular than her daughter, given their company made it? She got rid of Nate Richert for that reason, only to bring him back when the fans protested. God knows what Paula Hart was like when Britney Spears and Nick Robinson got big out of Melissa and Joey and Drive Me Crazy too).

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

 

[tommie]

I'm finally in season 6 and I'm getting slightly worried - first Mary debuted a new bouffant do' in the season premiere that was thankfully short-lived and in the second episode she's moved to a new apartment, which is a huge downgrade from the previous set if she's going to stay there.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

I'm finally in season 6 and I'm getting slightly worried - first Mary debuted a new bouffant do' in the season premiere that was thankfully short-lived and in the second episode she's moved to a new apartment, which is a huge downgrade from the previous set if she's going to stay there.

She stays there through the end of Season 7.

 

[tommie]

She stays there through the end of Season 7.

Suspected as much, which is a shame because it's such a downgrade. I could see why they couldn't justify having such a huge set though with both Rhoda and Phyllis gone.

RIP awesome apartment set.

 

[ClassyCo]

Yeah, I'm not terribly fond of Mary's new apartment she got in Season 6 myself. The first apartment was -- to me anyway -- more appealing and more iconic concerning the show in popular culture. But with Rhoda and Phyllis off doing their own shows, a change of scenery probably also assisted in the producers' intentions to help the show "move on" from loosing two popular cast members.​

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

And the new high-rise suite was intended to convey Mary's progression in life and career, out and away from the more appealing studio apartment in the attic.

I actually liked her bouffant from early-Season 6. She's had some eye work done by Season 7.

 

[Seaviewer]

And the new high-rise suite was intended to convey Mary's progression in life and career,

Yes, I had the impression it was supposed to be a step up. TBH I don't really remember it but I'm surprised to read negative opinions for that reason.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Yes, I had the impression it was supposed to be a step up. TBH I don't really remember it but I'm surprised to read negative opinions for that reason.

I guess people found the first one to be cozier.

 

[tommie]

I think it's also that it's an obvious set down-grade even if it's an upgrade for Mary - it's clearly smaller and has less "depth" than the OG set. It makes sense from a production point of view to make it smaller since her homelife has been reduced due to Rhoda and Phyllis leaving for spin-offs, but it's noticeable that they've downgraded it from being the "main" set.

 

[Crimson]

The original apartment set had so much personality it was practically a character; its loss was as impactful to the show as the departures of Rhoda and Phyllis. Moving Mary to a new apartment may have made sense, but the new place had no ambiance.

 

[tommie]

I took the opportunity to watch the first two episodes of Phyllis, both seasons are on YouTube but in terrible early/mid-2000s grainy quality. They're obviously trying to push Phyllis'/Cloris's self-deprecating sense of humor even down to the theme song ("Not youuuu!"). I noticed that the prostitute that appeared on MTM for two episodes is a part of the cast - understandable since she was great in the two episodes she appeared and unfortunately I found out the actress, Barbara Colby, was killed in a parking lot mugging three episodes into filming the show so it sort of had an omnious start.

I might try to binge watch this series since it's "only" 48 episodes and the quality on YouTube isn't great so it doesn't require my focus.

 

[tommie]

Having watched a bunch of episodes from season 1 there's really something that's missing from Phyllis - I think the overall theme of a widowed Phyllis making a new life for herself isn't just that strong and every episode is so far a variation of that. I don't necessarily think Phyllis is simply a character that lends herself to their own show, which isn't shade against Cloris's comedic talents of course but in this case it seems like they would've been better off creating a new character if they wanted to give her a show.
It's not horrible by any means, just very forgettable overall, if it wasn't tied to Mary Tyler Moore it wouldn't have been one of those "cancelled too soon" type of shows.

 

[ClassyCo]

Yeah, PHYLLIS was a misfire, and basically because Phyllis as a character wasn't likable enough to be the star of her own show.​

 

[tommie]

Yeah, PHYLLIS was a misfire, and basically because Phyllis as a character wasn't likable enough to be the star of her own show.​

I think it's also an issue with the supporting cast - what was the point of Phyllis moving in with her in-laws when both of them are fundamentally nice to her and welcome her with open arms? I guess that's why they let Mother Dexter become a permanent part of the cast, just to add some conflict. I can see why they got rid off the first "work set" too - again, there's not a lot of conflict there to drive the show. Jumping around in season 2, at least Phyllis's new work in public office seems to up the stakes a bit - if it had been renewed for season 3, I would've imho largely ditched her homelife which is probably what would've happened since Judith Lowry passed and Jane Rose would pass two years later from cancer.

 

[Seaviewer]

Yeah, PHYLLIS was a misfire, and basically because Phyllis as a character wasn't likable enough to be the star of her own show.​

Agreed. Phyllis was created as an irritant to Mary and Rhoda. It was too much of a stretch to make her the one we were supposed to be now rooting for.