#metoo

[Willie Oleson]

But, what does that mean exactly?

I think F.U.'s excuse was a bit easy after I had made the obviously imaginary/hypothetically point of male pregnancy.
Not only did he try to dodge the bullet, he even managed to make it sound a little victim-y - which is ironic since it's very much the fault of men that women become pregnant.

 

[Frank Underwood]

I mean...yeah, let the violins play.

To quote Channing Carter from The Colbys "I am BARREN!"

I think F.U.'s excuse was a bit easy after I had made the obviously imaginary/hypothetically point of male pregnancy.
Not only did he try to dodge the bullet, he even managed to make it sound a little victim-y - which is ironic since it's very much the fault of men that women become pregnant.

It's only "vicimy-y" if you ignore everything I wrote after it (which you did). Clearly, I was leading into a larger point when it comes to the pro-choice/anti-abortion discussion.

And what bullet did I try to dodge, exactly? My point was obviously that men don't have to get pregnant to have thoughts on abortion, especially when they're involved in the process of child-making. And except for rape, it isn't the fault of men alone that women get pregnant. In fact, putting the onus solely on men sounds rather "victim-y" to me.

But as I said, a lot of people act as if women don't have any agency (except when it comes to abortion, of course). Safe sex measures are a responsibility men and women share to avoid unwanted pregnancies, but when it comes to abortion, men need to shut up because "they're to blame." Oh, you don't want your child aborted? Let the violins play.

 

[Willie Oleson]

I was leading into a larger point when it comes to the pro-choice/anti-abortion discussion.

I read that but that doesn't really change how I feel about the idea that men can lay down the law about something that concerns women's bodies.

I would acknowledge the problem and tragedy if a woman wants to have an abortion while the husband really wants the child to be born.
But then he should ask himself: do I really want to have a child with this woman?

 

[Frank Underwood]

I read that but that doesn't really change how I feel about the idea that men can lay down the law about something that concerns women's bodies.

Conservative women feel the same way as those men, and their reasoning doesn't seem to be about "controlling women's bodies."

As I said, I consider myself pro-choice. However, I've become more sympathetic to people on the pro-life/anti-abortion side because I think some on the left have become too nonchalant about it. What was once seen as a terrible and traumatic last resort is now celebrated and bragged about in some circles. Even the framing around "men wanting to control women's bodies" (which I used to buy into) feels a little disingenuous now. Why can't they simply value the life of the unborn like anti-abortion, Christian women do?

I would acknowledge the problem and tragedy if a woman wants to have an abortion while the husband really wants the child to be born.
But then he should ask himself: do I really want to have a child with this woman?

Fair point, but I think their involvement in the process does at least warrant their involvement in the conversation.

 

[Angela Channing]

As I said, I consider myself pro-choice. However, I've become more sympathetic to people on the pro-life/anti-abortion side because I think some on the left have become too nonchalant about it. What was once seen as a terrible and traumatic last resort is now celebrated and bragged about in some circles. Even the framing around "men wanting to control women's bodies" (which I used to buy into) feels a little disingenuous now. Why can't they simply value the life of the unborn like anti-abortion, Christian women do?

I think even the most ardent pro-choice activists value human life and would consider a woman having to have an abortion is an undesirable and traumatic event that is best avoided. However, sometimes it is an necessity.

I don't know who these people are that you describe as bragging about having abortions but they can only be a tiny number of people who I would never allow to shape my opinions because the actions of a minority of pro-choice activists does not change the broader argument that women should have control over their bodies. If we went through life always giving in to a tiny minority of people with extreme views, we would be in a even bigger mess than we are in today.

Of course the men who impregnate women should have a say on whether or not a woman should go through with the pregnancy but ultimately the pregnant women have the right to reject their opinions.

 

[Frank Underwood]

I think even the most ardent pro-choice activists value human life and would consider a woman having to have an abortion is an undesirable and traumatic event that is best avoided. However, sometimes it is an necessity.

I don't know who these people are that you describe as bragging about having abortions but they can only be a tiny number of people who I would never allow to shape my opinions because the actions of a minority of pro-choice activists does not change the broader argument that women should have control over their bodies. If we went through life always giving in to a tiny minority of people with extreme views, we would be in a even bigger mess than we are in today.

I'm still pro-choice, so I haven't given in to that vile minority. The only thing that's changed is that it's no longer a black and white issue for me. I also realize that many people on the anti-abortion side simply care about the unborn. When people say they just want to "control women," I personally find that to be an oversimplification of a complex issue.

Of course the men who impregnate women should have a say on whether or not a woman should go through with the pregnancy but ultimately the pregnant women have the right to reject their opinions.

I get that, but some people don't think men should have a say at all because they're unable to get pregnant themselves. This is another example of how some people try to oversimplify a complex issue. The woman should have the final say, but I don't think a man is trying to "control her" if his only interest is in the life of the child he helped create.

 

[Seaviewer]

Reportedly, only 1 juror voted to convict,

Interesting. The reverse of the Twelve Angry Men scenario.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Interesting. The reverse of the Twelve Angry Men scenario.

Or, spiritually, the same.

 

[Willie Oleson]

it's no longer a black and white issue for me

Black and white issues don't exist anymore.

Also, I don't think we should talk about abortion as if it's always an easy thing to do for a woman. It's something that can haunt them forever in case they regret it.

 

[Frank Underwood]

Black and white issues don't exist anymore.

Also, I don't think we should talk about abortion as if it's always an easy thing to do for a woman. It's something that can haunt them forever in case they regret it.

I never said it was always easy on women. In fact, I said it had been viewed "as a terrible and traumatic last resort." I only take issue with the women who are cavalier about it.

 

[Willie Oleson]

I only take issue with the women who are cavalier about it.

Fine, but I'm sure those women are not the norm and abortion laws should not be based on those extreme cases.
If we're going that way then Andrew Tate represents the opinion of most men.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

2 billion babies have been aborted. The ones who weren't were killed by Lindsay Clancy.

 

[Frank Underwood]

Fine, but I'm sure those women are not the norm and abortion laws should not be based on those extreme cases.

I can remain pro-choice while finding some supporters of abortion rights abhorrent. I can also sympathize with people (especially expectant fathers) whose concern is solely for the life of the unborn. That's what I meant when I said it's not black and white to me. That doesn't mean I oppose abortion rights, but I do think it can be used irresponsibly.

If we're going that way then Andrew Tate represents the opinion of most men.

Unfortunately, there are women out there who do think he represents the opinion of most men.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Lindsay Clancy -- whom, for some reason, I keep wanting to call "Nancy" -- has now raised 3 million dollars.

Naturally, on THE VIEW's season premiere this morning, the panel was way sympathetic to Miz Clancy, making a perfunctory reference to the three dead kids, and went off on their predictable rants about women "not being taken seriously by doctors" and post-partum and too many meds. (No one mentions that all the prosecution's psych experts who testified in court stated firmly that she was not psychotic, and the blood tests taken the day of the murder revealed she wasn't on all that much stuff at the time, and some of the Rx she'd stopped taking).

Gynocentrism. It's a thing.

Now, Clancy's lawyer is asking Trump for a pardon for his client... If Trump gives in, he'll alienate some of his conservative base, and won't win over the blue-hairs who idolize Lindsay but despise him.

If Lindsay and Trump mutually endorse each other, would they simply trade fan bases 50/50?

 

[Seaviewer]

I can remain pro-choice while finding some supporters of abortion rights abhorrent. I can also sympathize with people (especially expectant fathers) whose concern is solely for the life of the unborn. That's what I meant when I said it's not black and white to me. That doesn't mean I oppose abortion rights, but I do think it can be used irresponsibly.

This is something we can agree on. Personally, I'd have to say I'm pro-life, but I'm firmly opposed to criminalisation, so, in practical terms, I guess I'm pro-choice.

If Trump gives in, he'll alienate some of his conservative base, and won't win over the blue-hairs who idolize Lindsay but despise him.

I'm not sure if Trump cares who he alienates, especially if he thinks that the conservatives will forgive him anything if they believe he will give them what they want otherwise.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Some of the jurors have come out of hiding (which may be a mistake, as the Clancy case has crossed a line) and are saying this about the lone juror who refused to acquit Lindsay:

So it's apparently all the fault of The Husband & The Lone Juror... Yesterday, THE VIEW (which I can rarely watch) also went down the popular rabbit hole of trying to blame Patrick for not being an adequate helper to his wife.