Dallas Character Sue Ellen leaving

Piggyrella Sanderson

Maximum Member
I don't know why Sue Ellen couldn't have stayed. Even without a relationship with JR, Sue Ellen could have still been a good addition to the show. Was there some law that said her storylines had to be connected with JR or something? And Don was absolutely terrible! It was especially cringe-worthy when he said that thing about the hero and the villain! How did that dude even manage to get into the movie business!?

That last question is the only thing I disagree with you: I´m sure there were (are) a lot of cringeworthy guys who not only pose as "profound" writers but also use their relationship with the producer to get to direct the project too. It´s a crappy business after all...
 

Don Howard

Telly Talk Fan
Linda's leaving was the final nail in the coffin for Dallas after Victoria's leaving caused it to plummet in the ratings.

I wouldn't say the final nail. Miss Ellie leaving after the 1989-90 season pretty much sealed the casket since this meant neither she nor Clayton (save for four fleeting appearances) were there to try to keep J.R. in line.

It might have been worse. Can you imagine how it would have gone if Ken Kercheval had been bitten by the "pursue other projects" bug and left in 1989 or 90?
 

ArchieLucasCarringtonEwing1989

Telly Talk TV Fanatic
I don't know what the heck they were thinking with Cally! If they absolutely had to have JR remarry, they should have at least made it a serious relationship, not a joke!

They should've brought Mandy Winger back, if anyone was a worthy and classy replacement for Sue Ellen at that point it was her, plus the fact Mandy ties back to Dallas better years pre Spring 1986, I don't understand why TPTB wrote her out in the first place, didn't Larry Hagman once say that Mandy was JR's best extramarital affair and his favourite love interest second only to Sue Ellen? I'm certain he did, plus JR was old enough to be Cally's grandfather whereas Mandy was only fifteen years younger than JR.
 

Rove

Telly Talk Warrior
Disgraceful treatment of one of the most valuable assets the show had. I know that Larry begged her to return.

Larry may have been "begging" for Linda's return but he was part of the problem. Larry was the highest paid actor on television in those days and that salary caused major issues. Production costs had escalated and actors had to go. Victoria of course left on her terms, brilliant move in hindsight. After the disastrous "Dream Season" debacle, viewers felt cheated and understandably began to taper off, and who could blame them. Outside influences were having a negative impact on Dallas as well. Comedies became popular again. Dallas's major competition, Dynasty, became the laughing stock of television with its "Moldavian Massacre" cliffhanger. And who could forget The Colby's answer to getting rid of Fallon - a spaceship!

When Dallas debuted it was presented as adult drama however towards the end I could no longer take J.R. seriously. Far too many times an episode would finish with his winning smile. I know most will argue he was the character "we loved to hate" however far too much humour was creeping into the show. As the main players were let go they were replaced with the likes of Cathy Podewell and Sasha Mitchell. Just awful in my opinion.

Towards its inevitable end Dallas was a shadow of its former self. Gone was Miss Ellie, Clayton, Pam, Sue Ellen, Donna, Ray and Jenna. What was the point of continuing this sorry saga. It should have ended when Pam went up in flames.
 

Kenny Coyote

Telly Talk Star
They should've brought Mandy Winger back, if anyone was a worthy and classy replacement for Sue Ellen at that point it was her, plus the fact Mandy ties back to Dallas better years pre Spring 1986, I don't understand why TPTB wrote her out in the first place, didn't Larry Hagman once say that Mandy was JR's best extramarital affair and his favourite love interest second only to Sue Ellen? I'm certain he did, plus JR was old enough to be Cally's grandfather whereas Mandy was only fifteen years younger than JR.

That's a good idea. The other women JR got involved with usually had some sort of tie to the oil business, such as Kimberly Cryder, Holly Harwood, Marilee Stone, Leslie Stewart, Anjelica Nero, even Katherine (Wentworth Industries) and April (5% of Ewing Oil) had at least an indirect tie to the oil business, and of the few that didn't Serena was an escort and Kristin was Sue Ellen's sister - both highly undesirable traits for a new Mrs. JR Ewing. Mandy was the one JR had an actual love affair with as opposed to sleeping with her just to consummate a business deal. She was the only one of all of them that JR really missed when he couldn't see her and the only one he was strongly emotionally connected to.

By approximately season 10 or 11 it became so tedious to see Sue Ellen with that fake smile plastered on her face in practically every scene whether she was happy or angry. We had already seen her and JR try to make their marriage work and then fail so many times that it was obvious it never would work. Their relationship had run its course. Mandy as JR's new wife would have been a breath of fresh air for a show that badly needed it by that time.
 

ArchieLucasCarringtonEwing1989

Telly Talk TV Fanatic
Larry may have been "begging" for Linda's return but he was part of the problem. Larry was the highest paid actor on television in those days and that salary caused major issues. Production costs had escalated and actors had to go. Victoria of course left on her terms, brilliant move in hindsight. After the disastrous "Dream Season" debacle, viewers felt cheated and understandably began to taper off, and who could blame them. Outside influences were having a negative impact on Dallas as well. Comedies became popular again. Dallas's major competition, Dynasty, became the laughing stock of television with its "Moldavian Massacre" cliffhanger. And who could forget The Colby's answer to getting rid of Fallon - a spaceship!

When Dallas debuted it was presented as adult drama however towards the end I could no longer take J.R. seriously. Far too many times an episode would finish with his winning smile. I know most will argue he was the character "we loved to hate" however far too much humour was creeping into the show. As the main players were let go they were replaced with the likes of Cathy Podewell and Sasha Mitchell. Just awful in my opinion.

Towards its inevitable end Dallas was a shadow of its former self. Gone was Miss Ellie, Clayton, Pam, Sue Ellen, Donna, Ray and Jenna. What was the point of continuing this sorry saga. It should have ended when Pam went up in flames.

The last five years didn't need to happen in my opinion, but if Dallas was to continue beyond season 10 (DVD) then I'd resolve series like this.

Version 1: I would have the dream season as Bobby's dream while he was in a coma, he'd reunite with Pam and at the end of the series in Spring 1987, I'd have Pam give birth to their child and have Pam, Bobby, Christopher and their new born baby move away from Dallas, JR would have control over Ewing Oil and would have married Mandy Winger, Sue Ellen would make peace with them and also move away from Dallas where she would make a career in fashion in New York taking John Ross with her, Jenna would marry Jack and would be pregnant with his child rather than Bobby being the father, and Ray would finally realise that he is good enough for Donna as he follows her to Washington with their new baby, Cliff would resolve his issues with the Ewings and would learn of Afton and their baby as he decides to be with her.

Version 2: If Dallas had to continued to 1991, I wouldn't bring Bobby back to life at all, Pam and Christopher would leave Dallas in 1987 after Cliff and JR have another one of their battles and Pam is fed up and decides to leave Dallas forever, Sue Ellen would be in a wheelchair from the explosion and would want a divorce from JR, who would then Marry Mandy Winger, Jenna in her despair would kill herself leaving Charlie an orphan, JR and Mandy would adopt her as JR was fond of Jenna, I'd move the action away from oil and onto a different playing field, like politics and law, Cliff would get JR's buffoonish storylines from the later years as Cliff was a buffoon in the series anyway, JR would remain the evil git but wouldn't be infallible, Ray and Donna would leave Dallas for Washington,mans there would be no Cally, no James, no April and no Michelle either.
 

Rove

Telly Talk Warrior
The last five years didn't need to happen in my opinion,

So true. I can only conclude Lorimar Productions kept the show running because it was still making money for them, especially from overseas markets. "Keep milking it," must have been their catchphrase.

I've written about this in other posts so excuse my repetition. When Patrick decides to leave Dallas the cast and crew should have been gathered for the announcement that two more seasons were greenlit, then it was to be retired. Patrick leaving when Dallas was still riding the ratings high was both brave and foolish - in hindsight. However, I believe this was the trigger needed for the writers to really be brave and send Dallas off in a blaze of glory.

Pam assumes control of Christopher's interest in Ewing Oil, much to J.R.'s disdain. Years of tension between Pam and J.R. was about to be unleashed and the whole Ewing/Barnes/Krebbs families and the Oil Cartel were about to be embroiled as well.

The story was set. The fight between the Ewing's and Barnes family was to reach a crescendo. I would have preferred Dallas ending, in me (and the viewers) wanting more.
 

MenaceTheDennis

Telly Talk Member
Very few tv shows actually respect the long time fans and voluntarily pull the plug on a creative high or near high. This world revolves around money in multiple ways, not the least of which are tv shows that outstay their welcome by a few years so everyone can keep getting massive pay checks. The producers really should've never approached Duffy in the first place to return if they were going to make 1985-1986 a dream. It really undermined the show to say the least. 1986-1987 was a decent season in some respects but I always get that trying to put toothpaste back into a tube feel to it. At this point everything interesting that Dallas could do had been done and it was time to end it with the cast (minus Tilton, or she could've returned for the last episodes) intact before Victoria left. Plus a really creative writing team could've gotten around Bobbys death instead of the lazy option they took.
 

Presea

Telly Talk Addict
I know but Linda wanted to leave by this point. This is the turning point for me - JR descended into complete madness. Sue Ellen was always going to be connected to JR. They were just too damn good together not to be connected and they were never truly able to let each other go - would always be meddling in each others business!
I heard that Linda wanted to leave because they planned to make Sue Ellen start drinking AGAIN. If that was the case, I can understand why she didn't want to come back!
 

Presea

Telly Talk Addict
That would have been the strongest option by far.

She may not have been a suitable Mrs Ewing but I liked Cally as a character. The last new character that made an impression on me in fact.
They should have just made Cally someone who worked on the ranch and became friends with the Ewings. That would have been fine with me. But her and JR!? Ewww!
 

Presea

Telly Talk Addict
That's a good idea. The other women JR got involved with usually had some sort of tie to the oil business, such as Kimberly Cryder, Holly Harwood, Marilee Stone, Leslie Stewart, Anjelica Nero, even Katherine (Wentworth Industries) and April (5% of Ewing Oil) had at least an indirect tie to the oil business, and of the few that didn't Serena was an escort and Kristin was Sue Ellen's sister - both highly undesirable traits for a new Mrs. JR Ewing. Mandy was the one JR had an actual love affair with as opposed to sleeping with her just to consummate a business deal. She was the only one of all of them that JR really missed when he couldn't see her and the only one he was strongly emotionally connected to.

By approximately season 10 or 11 it became so tedious to see Sue Ellen with that fake smile plastered on her face in practically every scene whether she was happy or angry. We had already seen her and JR try to make their marriage work and then fail so many times that it was obvious it never would work. Their relationship had run its course. Mandy as JR's new wife would have been a breath of fresh air for a show that badly needed it by that time.
I think that it would have been good for JR to be with someone who was interested in and connected to the oil business. Having a shared interest with a woman he married would make for a deeper relationship, in my opinion.
 

Piggyrella Sanderson

Maximum Member
At the time, I read about two Sue Ellen storylines that never really happened, one of them her life being in danger because of Nick´s mafia connections (with shooting involved) and her marriage to a oil baron played by Hill Street Blues´ Michael Warren, who sounded as a black version of Digger. The latter would have been original for that time though...
 

Rove

Telly Talk Warrior
Had Duffy stayed away one of the storylines for season 10 was Pam and Cliff teaming up to destroy JR

Well the ingredients were there. Remember Pam storming the Ewing Building after discovering the she had been sent on a wild goose chase around the Caribbean looking for Mark? She bolted into J.R.'s office and finally gave him the lip service he so deserved. She threatened J.R. to take away the one thing he cared about, Ewing Oil. But then nothing come of it.
 

Rove

Telly Talk Warrior
not the least of which are tv shows that outstay their welcome by a few years

So true. Slightly off topic but I'm finding the same thing with "The Big Bang Theory." I loved the premise of the show and its first 5 seasons but now find it tedious and often boring to watch. That being said it's still a popular show around the world so I'm guessing as long as the production company is still making money.....
 

Piggyrella Sanderson

Maximum Member
Well the ingredients were there. Remember Pam storming the Ewing Building after discovering the she had been sent on a wild goose chase around the Caribbean looking for Mark? She bolted into J.R.'s office and finally gave him the lip service he so deserved.
:eek::bag:
 

Sarah

Moderator Emerita
I think that it would have been good for JR to be with someone who was interested in and connected to the oil business. Having a shared interest with a woman he married would make for a deeper relationship, in my opinion.

He doesn't have, and couldn't have had a relationship any deeper than the one he had with Sue Ellen. It dumbfounds me that you can't see the opportunity that was missed in not pairing them up to go into business together instead of that twit Cryder. Watching him with anyone else was and would have been downright boring and would have done NOTHING for the ratings. A marriage to Mandy would have lasted about 5 seconds. I completely disagree that Mandy was the only one he missed when he couldn't see her - where is the evidence of that?? It was Sue Ellen he continually chased after and even referred to as 'my wife' to Don Lockwood when they had divorced. Larry Hagman said of Sue Ellen 'JR is endlessly captivated by Sue Ellen'. JR had NO problem letting Mandy go when the choice had to be made. I sure didn't see him missing her then, or at any other point in the series. And that's not just because I detest the woman - it just didn't happen. He missed Sue Ellen when he wasn't with her and that is obvious. He changed completely when she left for good.

If you think JR would have treated or had a better relationship with Mandy in marriage or any other woman, that's foolish. Love them or hate them, in love or tearing each other's heads off - JR and Sue Ellen only worked when they were together or one was chasing the other. As I keep saying, the quote from the producer is 'Without Sue Ellen, JR was much less'. All Larry Hagman wanted for JR and Sue Ellen by the time 1996 and the reunion movies came was 'to make things right between JR and Sue Ellen'. He said that to the writers. He didn't care about anyone else - except things being made right for the awful mess of the past few years.

To suggest pairing him up with any other woman is just a fantasy. It just doesn't work at all, in any respect.
 
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Karin

Moderator
Staff Member
I think that it would have been good for JR to be with someone who was interested in and connected to the oil business. Having a shared interest with a woman he married would make for a deeper relationship, in my opinion.

You have a point here, which is why I think "JR Returns" set up for an interesting dynamic when Sue Ellen went into the oil business to become Bobby's partner in Ewing Oil. JR & Sue Ellen were the most interesting relationship in my opinion. They should have kept evolving it instead of giving up on it! ;)
 
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