Watching NuWho

[Jock Ewing Fan]

The BBC is going to cut up to 2,000 jobs.
This will directly effect "Doctor Who", inasmuch as a streaming partner will be necessary for the series to continue.
After the failure of the Disney era, it may be difficult to find one, unless that streaming partner has access to the back catalogue,
and a new production team is put in place, one that has no connection to the failed Chibnall/JW/RTD2/Gatwa fiascos

The entire show may be rebooted from the beginning, which I would not like to see, but a new streaming partner may prefer that route

BBC will cut up to 2,000 jobs to reduce costs by about 10%

The BBC plans to cut up to 2,000 jobs to save 10% of its annual budget. The national broadcaster announced the layoffs on Wednesday.

apnews.com

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

No news is news, in the sense that it seems to be getting late if the BBC is planning a Christmas special,
and no news on a streaming partner.

Even assuming a Christmas special takes place, it could be a long time before a new season is in production

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

There were rumors of a major announcement, but nothing has happened

Only new development is a multi-platform project with Jo Martin, something no one cares about. (or at least
no one who is a real fan)

Now to be clear, I have nothing against Jo Martin. She was a better performer than JW (not a high bar),
and probably better than NG. But the Fugitive Doctor makes no sense.

In theory her "Doctor" could have been a bigeneration from Patrick Troughton post "War Games" or
Paul McGann post "Night of the Doctor" (A regeneration on an all female planet with a life sustaining liquid developed on that planet)
But she could not have predated William Hartnell, since it has been clearly
established that WH departed Gallifrey in a Type 40 Tardis with Susan. JM's Doctor contradicts that established fact - no Susan.
She could not have encountered any number of the Doctor's best known adversaries,
since he was meeting them for the first time in the classic series (Except possibly for the Cybermen and the Toymaker could have been known to the Hartnell Doctor, but that is another speculative matter)
"The Five Doctors" The First Doctor clearly states that there are 5
Tom Baker' 4th Doctor returns to Gallifrey and the Master is in his final body, the 12th regeneration
This clearly indicates that Tom Baker is the 4th Doctor, and it supercedes events in the previous season's "The Brain of Morbius"
The faces are not past Doctors (although they could be future Doctors), or incarnations of Morbius
Reinforced that Clara saw all the Doctor's past selves, including the Doctor's initial flight from Gallifrey, with Susan

It also makes no sense that the Doctor returned to Gallifrey numerous times, was on trial at least 4 times, and yet a Fugitive Doctor
is out there for 14 incarnations? Longer than the combined lifespan of all Doctors. That is Chibnall. False origin story, identity politics, complete disregard for the show's cannon.

At this point, still no news for the Christmas special casting. BBC probably needs a streaming partner, but after the fiasco with Disney,
I don't know how enthused other entities are. It is likely that they would want creative control and/or the back catalogue, at least in part.
Not exactly a strong bargaining position

 

[James from London]

Only new development is a multi-platform project with Jo Martin, something no one cares about. (or at least
no one who is a real fan)

Being a real fan doesn't seem very enjoyable. I think I'll carry on being a fake fan, i.e., just someone who really likes watching the programme and its various spin-offs, listens to a few Who-related podcasts*, flicks through the occasional issue of Doctor Who Magazine and avoids spoilers like the plague, but otherwise doesn't worry too much about it.

* On the Time Lash, Dr Who: Too Hot for TV and I Hate Doctor Who are the most fun ones.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

Being a real fan doesn't seem very enjoyable. I think I'll carry on being a fake fan, i.e., just someone who really likes watching the programme and its various spin-offs, listens to a few Who-related podcasts*, flicks through the occasional issue of Doctor Who Magazine and avoids spoilers like the plague, but otherwise doesn't worry too much about it.

* On the Time Lash, Dr Who: Too Hot for TV and I Hate Doctor Who are the most fun ones.

And that is your choice. Doctor Who fans will always be happy to celebrate the classic series and the Eccleston, Tennant, MSmith and Capaldi era when the show was enjoyable. Post Capaldi/Moffatt, the show has been garbage, a farcical production that is Doctor Who in name only. I will choose not to accept any slop that is pieced together in the pathetic attempts to put out a (bad) product under the Doctor Who name.
You won't need to be concerned about spoilers since their are no plans to resume production of a new series

 

[James from London]

Doctor Who fans will always be happy to celebrate the classic series and the Eccleston, Tennant, MSmith and Capaldi era when the show was enjoyable.

Impressive that real Doctor Who fans are all agreement about when the show was enjoyable -- or is it that being agreement about when the show was enjoyable is what qualifies one as a real Doctor Who fan?

You won't need to be concerned about spoilers since their are no plans to resume production of a new series

Phew!

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

Impressive that real Doctor Who fans are all agreement about when the show was enjoyable -- or is it that being agreement about when the show was enjoyable is what qualifies one as a real Doctor Who fan?

Let us think about this.

The Classic series and Eccleston/Tennant/MSmith/Capaldi had higher ratings and higher Appreciation Index scores for the overwhelming majority of episodes than the garbage that was post Capaldi/Moffat. That includes higher ratings for Anniversary Specials and Christmas Specials (Of Course Chibnall replaced Christmas specials with Holiday Specials -Ugh). (That also includes ratings for BBC America, until ratings declined during the Chibnall/JW era). Disney apparently didn't think the ratings were good enough for the RTD 2 era, since they decided not to renew.

Sales for Videos, Books, Magazines, Action Figures, etc were also much higher during the the Classic series and Eccleston/Tennant/MSmith/Capaldi years
than post Capaldi/Moffet

During the wilderness years (1990-2004) it was the fans who kept the show's future alive by attending conventions, purchasing books, videos and audio adventures featuring all 7 Doctors from the classic series and the 8th Doctor. They also purchased action figures, magazines, other merchandise and many created fan films.
It is logical to assert that they are true fans, and they certainly were fans of the classic series.

When Doctor Who returned in 2005, their was great celebration, and people were overwhelmingly supportive of the new series for the Eccleston/Tennant/MSmith/Capaldi years. Then Chibnall became showrunner, decided on a false origin story, had no respect for canon, inserted identity politics and hired incompetent production personnel who had no/or limited sci-fi experience. Sadly, RTD 2 continued the downward spiral.

Now, there is no new series planned for production, merchandise sales are plummeting (what little there is features Tom Baker, David Tennant, Matt Smith and Daleks), no new streaming partner has emerged (the Disney fiasco is quite probably the reason), a planned Christmas special that has no starting date for production,
and any continuity is in complete disarray.

So yes, fans of the classic series who supported the show during the wilderness years are the reason that there was an audience for the show's return,
and those fans also supported the show through the Eccleston/Tennant/MSmith/Capaldi years. They have clearly rejected the farce that is Doctor Who in name only post Capaldi/Moffett

 

[Seaviewer]

It also makes no sense that the Doctor returned to Gallifrey numerous times, was on trial at least 4 times, and yet a Fugitive Doctor
is out there for 14 incarnations? Longer than the combined lifespan of all Doctors. That is Chibnall. False origin story, identity politics, complete disregard for the show's cannon.

It ought to be possible for a good writer to make a fascinating story of all this. Alternate timelines, alternate dimensions - Jo Martin's Doctor could be a fugitive from any or all of these.

 

[James from London]

fans of the classic series who supported the show during the wilderness years are the reason that there was an audience for the show's return,
and those fans also supported the show through the Eccleston/Tennant/MSmith/Capaldi years. They have clearly rejected the farce that is Doctor Who in name only post Capaldi/Moffett

Well, I was listening on the latest episode of the On the Time Lash podcast, which is hosted by two men who seem fit the "real fan" criteria you describe, i.e., they discovered the show during the nineties, became obsessed with it, joined fan groups, embraced the reboot, go to countless Who conventions, do loads of Who podcasts etc., etc., BUT they both really like the Chris Chibnall/Jodie Whittaker era. So does that automatically disqualify them as "real fans"?

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

Well, I was listening on the latest episode of the On the Time Lash podcast, which is hosted by two men who seem fit the "real fan" criteria you describe, i.e., they discovered the show during the nineties, became obsessed with it, joined fan groups, embraced the reboot, go to countless Who conventions, do loads of Who podcasts etc., etc., BUT they both really like the Chris Chibnall/Jodie Whittaker era. So does that automatically disqualify them as "real fans"?

"Seem to fit" So what?
Chibnall and thereafter, the show has declining ratings, merchandise that is more and more scarce, Disney's departure - wonder what they have to say about those things
Interesting that the title borrows from arguably the worst script of the CBaker era
It indicates that they are fans of a substandard (at best) era of a show that is Doctor Who in name only.
It also raises the question of whether they understand the importance of a coherent fictional narrative, good writing, good directing and, good storytelling, not to mention the appalling lack of respect by Chibnall for 50+ years of continuity

In any case, there are NO plans to resume production after Disney departed, and no new streaming partner has been confirmed.
The Christmas special has no confirmed details on many things, including casting. It would need to go into production fairly soon, otherwise ...?
Those are Facts. Does not sound like a healthy franchise

It ought to be possible for a good writer to make a fascinating story of all this. Alternate timelines, alternate dimensions - Jo Martin's Doctor could be a fugitive from any or all of these.

The key words are "good writer" Doctor Who hasn't had many post Moffat/Capaldi

Enjoyed watching ep 1 of "The Dalek Masterplan" THAT is Doctor Who

 

[James from London]

Interesting that the title borrows from arguably the worst script of the CBaker era
It indicates that they are fans of a substandard (at best) era of a show that is Doctor Who in name only.

The title is actually a play on the British slang phrase "on the lash" which means "drinking a lot of alcoholic drinks, especially socially with friends: He was out on the lash with his mates."

The concept of their podcast, which I really love, is that they have a few drinks while discussing a story from New Who and a correspondingly themed one from Old Who.

(Apropos of nothing, I found 'Timelash' surprisingly enjoyable given that I don't really like Colin Baker's Who much. )

"Seem to fit" Not exactly a strong assertion. Not impressed

Humble apologies. I'm just trying to get to grips with the specific qualifications of "real fandom". I've not seen them written down anywhere before. If there is a "Qualifications for Real Doctor Who Fandom" document anywhere online, some sort of consensus that all you "real fans" have arrived at, I'd be fascinated to see it.

It also raises the question of whether they understand the importance of a coherent fictional narrative

I guess you'd have to listen to the podcast and decide for yourself. Not that I'm expecting you to do so.

the appalling lack of respect by Chibnall for 50+ years of continuity, good writing, good directing, good storytelling and respect for the show's fan base.

Yet they would consider themselves to be members of that fan base. But I guess it's for "a real fan" such as yourself to decide whether or not they're correct.

of course, no description of the complete mess of RTD 2

They've only just started reviewing that era. Some parts they really like, other aspects not so much. And of course, they're individuals so they don't necessarily agree on the bits they do and don't like. But perhaps that's a more nuanced approach than the parameters of "real fandom" would allow for.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

The title is actually a play on the British slang phrase "on the lash" which means "drinking a lot of alcoholic drinks, especially socially with friends: He was out on the lash with his mates."

The concept of their podcast, which I really love, is that they have a few drinks while discussing a story from New Who and a correspondingly themed one from Old Who.

(Apropos of nothing, I found 'Timelash' surprisingly enjoyable given that I don't really like Colin Baker's Who much. )



Humble apologies. I'm just trying to get to grips with the specific qualifications of "real fandom". I've not seen them written down anywhere before. If there is a "Qualifications for Real Doctor Who Fandom" document anywhere online, some sort of consensus that all you "real fans" have arrived at, I'd be fascinated to see it.





I guess you'd have to listen to the podcast and decide for yourself. Not that I'm expecting you to do so.



Yet they would consider themselves to be members of that fan base. But I guess it's for "a real fan" such as yourself to decide whether or not they're correct.



They've only just started reviewing that era. Some parts they really like, other aspects not so much. And of course, they're individuals so they don't necessarily agree on the bits they do and don't like. But perhaps that's a more nuanced approach than the parameters of "real fandom" would allow for.

I know the difference between quality and garbage. And I listen to far more podcasts than you, with subjects that are varied with regard to many shows. And newsflash. The overwhelming majority of those podcasts assert that Doctor Who post Moffat/Capaldi is horrendous. Not that I expect you to listen. And you have not addressed the objective realities. Declining ratings, Merchandise Scarcity, Disney's exit.
The marketplace has spoken

 

[James from London]

And I listen to far more podcasts than you, with subjects that are varied with regard to many shows.

I wonder if you do? I listen to lots too, lots and lots. Not that it's a competition.

And newsflash. The overwhelming majority of those podcasts assert that Doctor Who post Moffat/Capaldi is horrendous. Not that I expect you to listen.

Granted, I only listen to a handful of Who-related podcasts. I've tried several, but have settled for ones presented by people I find funny and interesting. I like a nice balance of enthusiasm and irreverence. I don't have agree with all their opinions and they don't have to agree with each other. In fact. it's more interesting if they don't.

And you have not addressed the objective realities. Declining ratings, Merchandise Scarcity, Disney's exit.

I feel like I have addressed all those things before. I don't care about them. They're not part of my Who-watching experience. But I'm not gonna keep saying "I don't care" every time the subjects come up, cos it gets a bit boring saying the same thing over and over.

The marketplace has spoken

Blimey!

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

I feel like I have addressed all those things before. I don't care about them. They're not part of my Who-watching experience. But I'm not gonna keep saying "I don't care" every time the subjects come up, cos it gets a bit boring saying the same thing over and over.



Blimey!

Whether you care about it or not, I can assure you that the BBC, Disney and other potential streaming partners care A LOT. Reality is that the show has no new streaming partner, no plan to resume production. And if those things that you don't care about are not addressed, there will be no new series for the foreseeable future. And I don't recall you addressing any of it, especially the declining ratings.

Blimey? You are overlooking important points. Disney expected to have a successful partnership with the BBC. Disney is in business to make $. They did not extend the partnership, because it was not generating the ratings, interest and revenues, obviously. That is the result of not enough viewers (whether they are fans or not) which indicates that the show was not very good and/or not appealing to the perceived fanbase, and/or could not appeal to new fans and/or could not appeal to longer time fans.

Clearly, the show was not good enough and/or did not have enough viewers. It will be difficult to partner with another streaming service as a result, unless the BBC makes changes. That is the Marketplace. That is the business side that determines whether Doctor Who will have a new series. It can't be ignored.

Clearly, Doctor Who has numerous issues. If it is to return, its failures need to be acknowledged and addressed so that it can be repaired. That discussion is probably well underway at the BBC. Ultimately, the only opinions that matter are the BBC's and potential streaming partners, with regard to any future new series, since they will be the ones producing it.

 

[James from London]

I don't recall you addressing any of it, especially the declining ratings.

Ratings and merchandise and all those external things are largely irrelevant to me,

I can't really talk about ratings because the subject just sends me to sleep -- my brain starts to shut down like I'm reading someone else's accounts

if those things that you don't care about are not addressed, there will be no new series for the foreseeable future

that's OK. It's been a brilliant twenty year run and if this really is the end, then they're definitely going out in style and I intend to enjoy every last minute. As for viewing figures, I kind of hope I'm the only one left watching by the end. That would make me the winner!

All I know is I've had a lovely time over the past couple of months watching the very last season, and I can't really ask for more than that.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

I thought part of being a fan was wanting the series to continue
Refusing to discuss declining ratings because it is somehow an inconvenient fact does not constitute acknowledgement

"that's OK. It's been a brilliant twenty year run and if this really is the end, then they're definitely going out in style and I intend to enjoy every last minute. As for viewing figures, I kind of hope I'm the only one left watching by the end. That would make me the winner!"

Going out in style?????? Record Low/Near Record low ratings, right. A lead actor who insults the fans. Some "winning" Some "Style"

“Your terms are acceptable”: Ncuti Gatwa Asking Haters to Touch Some Grass Backfires as His Doctor Who Role Upsets Vocal Fanbase

After Ncuti Gatwa clapped back at his haters, Doctor Who fans accepted his advice and pledged to never watch the series.

fandomwire.com

 

[James from London]

I thought part of being a fan was wanting the series to continue

I think we've already established that I don't meet your criteria of being "a real fan." I love watching the actual programme. I'm not interested in speculation or spoilers or worrying about the future. I'm very much with Katy Manning on that: https://x.com/ManningOfficial/status/1929979196593352967

Refusing to discuss declining ratings because it is somehow an inconvenient fact does not constitute acknowledgement

They're not inconvenient, they're just boring. To me, Doctor Who is about hurtling through time and space, not poring over figures and ratings. If I wanted to do that, I'd have become an accountant. If being "a real fan" requires involving oneself in all that stuff, that's fair enough , but that's exactly why I said being "a real fan" doesn't sound like much fun in the first place.

Record Low ratings, right. A lead actor who insults the fans.

Those things have nothing to do my experience of watching the actual programme itself and so I don't really care about them. So long as I'm watching it, it genuinely doesn't matter to me how many other people are.

 

[Willie Oleson]

I thought part of being a fan was wanting the series to continue

I don't think they should continue the series - or any tv series - just because they can, or just because it's viable.
And if it ends you can hardly say "they prematurely cancelled my favourite series". It's not a New Dallas scenario.

Being a fan is loving it, watching and/or rewatching the stories. It doesn't require proof in the form of continuation or commercial success.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

I don't think they should continue the series - or any tv series - just because they can, or just because it's viable.
And if it ends you can hardly say "they prematurely cancelled my favourite series". It's not a New Dallas scenario.

Being a fan is loving it, watching and/or rewatching the stories. It doesn't require proof in the form of continuation or commercial success.

I agree. It is also true, however, that any series, Including Doctor Who will be discussed by people and there will be both positives and negatives.
Star Wars and Star Trek both are having some of the same issues. The fans want to have good products from both franchises, but there have been
some issues
That is why sites like Rotten Tomatoes exist, and why there are podcasts by content creators.
Having said that, most fans who visit the sites do so for information and analysis.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

I think we've already established that I don't meet your criteria of being "a real fan." I love watching the actual programme. I'm not interested in speculation or spoilers or worrying about the future. I'm very much with Katy Manning on that: https://x.com/ManningOfficial/status/1929979196593352967



They're not inconvenient, they're just boring. To me, Doctor Who is about hurtling through time and space, not poring over figures and ratings. If I wanted to do that, I'd have become an accountant. If being "a real fan" requires involving oneself in all that stuff, that's fair enough , but that's exactly why I said being "a real fan" doesn't sound like much fun in the first place.



Those things have nothing to do my experience of watching the actual programme itself and so I don't really care about them. So long as I'm watching it, it genuinely doesn't matter to me how many other people are.

Generally, people who watch the show enjoy having more info about it. You included, since you have said that you watch podcasts about it, so you contradict yourself