Marvel Watching the Marvel Cinematic Universe from the beginning...

[Mel O'Drama]

I presume you haven't been keeping up with the MCU.

You're quite right. The last MCU project I watched by release order was Ms. Marvel, with Multiverse Of Madness the most recent film. Honestly, I haven't felt I've been missing out. There are a number of films from Phase Five - and the tail end of Phase Four - I'll be happy to skip entirely. The Multiverse Saga has just dragged on far too long.

Phase Six is off to a solid start. FANTASTIC FOUR: FIRST STEPS is a solid change of pace. It's not a great film and I think it would only be in the top half of my MCU ranking, but it course-corrects a lot of the cumulative problems with the MCU.

From the little I've read, it does seem to be well-received. The fact that this initial appearance seems to be mostly self-contained in its own little world is very appealing to me, and I would think for many who are overwhelmed by the increasingly complex continuity of the universe.

I'm glad you found things to enjoy in it. I won't be racing out to watch, but I'd certainly give this one a go in due course.

 

[Crimson]

The Multiverse Saga has just dragged on far too long.

Too long and with no focus or intention. I question how much hype the next two AVENGERS films can muster. There's none of the narrative urgency that lead up to the Infinity Saga conclusion and I think these two upcoming films are going to rely heavily on the already exhausted contrivance of fan service, cameos and Easter eggs.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

With regard to the new Fantastic Four movie - The best one is still the low budget, never released theatrical version by...Roger Corman!
That movie somehow had that fun, comic book fan likeability that has been missing since then.

Have not seen the new one, and from what I have read about it, I don't intend to see it.

 

[Crimson]

@Mel O'Drama Finally a Spider-Man movie that hits the right beats?

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Finally a Spider-Man movie that hits the right beats?

When I saw this trailer appear last night I watched a little bit and initially thought it was a fan made/AI trailer. I've seen some pretty authentic - if artificial - looking fanfic-type trailer and this ticked those boxes. But yes. It was because the tone was more authentically Spider-Man than anything the MCU has given us so far.

From this trailer, it looks as though Marvel is delivering on what was promised at the end of No Way Home, and that's definitely a good thing.

Frank Castle is the best sign that things are being taken to street level. The other antagonists are promising too, since they're mostly pretty grounded.

Incidentally, is that the MCU's Rogue on the bus at 2:07? I didn't see anything in the comments to suggest anyone else spotted this, so I feel like the kid in The Emperor's New Clothes, but it immediately reminded me of a panel in X-Men #170 that showed Rogue on a bus (on her way to find sanctuary with the X-Men, having fled Mystique's care).

At its best, Spider-Man has always been based in science-fiction, so it's ironic that it's taken a magic spell for the MCU to finally get the tone right. I enjoyed the homage to Amazing Fantasy #15 as well as that Tarantula cover.

 

[Crimson]

Incidentally, is that the MCU's Rogue on the bus at 2:07? I didn't see anything in the comments to suggest anyone else spotted this

Quite a few posts about it on reddit, so not just you. The general consensus is Easter egg misdirection. Certainly the hair colors, clothing color and intentionality of the only person being seen on the bus are meant to draw attention to her, but most likely we're being messed with. That looks like a background extra, not a lead-ish character in a new franchise. Plus, [something something something] sports team [something something]. (Not a sports fan, so no idea what anyone's talking about.)

I've never been a huge Spider-Man fan but I like the character enough to be perplexed that every movie -- literally, all of them -- has failed to hit the mark. One of the biggest misses has been not enough distinction between Peter Parker and Spider-Man. It's an odd trend in superhero fiction that probably started with the '70s episodes of Wonder Woman: Hollywood not wanting "dull" characters and so we get Diana Prince as a hot babe, recent Clark Kents as Alpha Chads and Peter Parkers being just as quippy and witty as Spider-Man. Glum Peter Parker wouldn't be my first choice, but I appreciate what appears to be a clear distinction between personas. Also it looks like Tom Holland has dialed down the hyper-active enthusiasm, so he might not pierce your nerves as he did in his other films.

I look forward to your opinion of the movie in, oh, 2028.

The Punisher's inclusion in the last season of Daredevil didn't tempt me back to Disney +, but the upcoming appearance of Jessica Jones in the new season probably will.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Quite a few posts about it on reddit, so not just you.

Oh good. It jumped off the screen at me so I was wondering why there weren't more (any?) comments beneath the trailer when I watched.

The general consensus is Easter egg misdirection.

That's fine with me. In the original X-Men film we met most of the characters through Rogue's eyes and I'd quite like a different direction this time round. I'd love Marvel to do what they appear to have done with the Fantastic Four and go back to basics with mostly the original team while getting the All New, All Different roster lined up in the background.

Glum Peter Parker wouldn't be my first choice,

Funnily enough, I didn't particularly notice the glumness until I read some comments pointing out how miserable and depressed he is. I like my Peter Parker to be conflicted and somewhat isolated, and that element of social exclusion taps just enough into the outsider he was in the Lee/Ditko era.

Also it looks like Tom Holland has dialed down the hyper-active enthusiasm, so he might not pierce your nerves as he did in his other films.

You know me too well. That very thought crossed my mind as I watched, and it's made the idea of watching a far more attractive prospect.

I look forward to your opinion of the movie in, oh, 2028.

Well, I'm only five years, ten films and numerous TV shows behind. I'll get there.

 

[Crimson]

I like my Peter Parker to be conflicted and somewhat isolated, and that element of social exclusion taps just enough into the outsider he was in the Lee/Ditko era.

Ideally Peter is a nerdy introvert burdened with responsibility -- his secret, the negative impact his selflessness as Spider-Man has on his private life, and having to care for an inexplicably elderly aunt. The shy Peter's real personality only coming out when he's in the mask seems essential, at least for young Peter.

Glum Peter becoming carefree in the mask is close enough!

back to basics with mostly the original team while getting the All New, All Different roster lined up in the background.

There's no way we're getting an X-Men without Storm and Wolverine, I can only hope they don't make Wolverine the leading man.

Well, I'm only five years, ten films and numerous TV shows behind. I'll get there.

You almost gave me an aneurism thinking it had been 5 years since we discussed the MCU; "Where did that time go?" Your main excursion was indeed a half decade ago, which is incredulous enough; but there were check-ins in 2022 and 2024 where you caught up a couple projects.

If you plan to catch up with everything in the MCU, I guess we'll discuss BND in, oh, 2032.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Ideally Peter is a nerdy introvert burdened with responsibility -- his secret, the negative impact his selflessness as Spider-Man has on his private life, and having to care for an inexplicably elderly aunt. The shy Peter's real personality only coming out when he's in the mask seems essential, at least for young Peter.

Glum Peter becoming carefree in the mask is close enough!

Yes to all this.

There's no way we're getting an X-Men without Storm and Wolverine

Oh, I'm sure you're right. We'll probably end up with something closer to the 80s/90s lineup (X-Men: TAS seems to be many people's frame of reference for the team) and it's probably not a bad thing, really. If the next phase is going to be mutant-heavy, it's a sure bet that The New Mutants will be part of that, and this will give me the "teenage mutants in training" fix anyway. If they also throw in Alpha Flight along the way, I'll be a happy camper.

I can only hope they don't make Wolverine the leading man.

Yes. It's a challenge at this point because Hugh Jackman is most people's go-to for the character. I'm not sure what people would make of a comic-accurate Wolverine.

You almost gave me an aneurism thinking it had been 5 years since we discussed the MCU; "Where did that time go?" Your main excursion was indeed a half decade ago, which is incredulous enough; but there were check-ins in 2022 and 2024 where you caught up a couple projects.

Oh, I was thinking of those five years being release dates rather than when I actually watched. My most recent MCU viewing was No Way Home, which was from 2021, but of course before that I'd also watched some projects released after NWH in 2022 (Moon Knight, Multiverse Of Madness and Ms. Marvel), so I suppose I'm really only four years behind.

Yikes, though. It's hard to believe 2026 will mark the fifth anniversary of my initial dive into the MCU. It really seems like no time at all, and it remains one of my most immersive and fun franchise experiences. It's mind-boggling to think I watched the vast majority (including a number of TV series) in the space of just six months.

If you plan to catch up with everything in the MCU, I guess we'll discuss BND in, oh, 2032.

The completist in me would like to say I'd watched them all in order. It might even be tolerable to do that now that there's been a big gap since I watched The Infinity Saga.

Really, though, Daredevil: Born Again is the only Phase Five/Six project I would go out of my way to watch, with Brand New Day potentially joining it. Besides those I'll probably just cherry pick.

 

[Crimson]

I saw BRAND NEW DAY last night; vague & spoiler-free thoughts.

Ideally Peter is a nerdy introvert burdened with responsibility -- his secret, the negative impact his selflessness as Spider-Man has on his private life, and having to care for an inexplicably elderly aunt. The shy Peter's real personality only coming out when he's in the mask seems essential, at least for young Peter.

Glum Peter becoming carefree in the mask is close enough!

I thought all of this panned out as hoped. This is Holland's most restrained performance as Spidey and Peter, with the hyperactive enthusiasm dialed significantly down. Superficially, this was a very enjoyable film -- fast paced with some dizzyingly inventive action scenes and a good balance between heart and humor. I enjoyed the vignettes of Spider-Man fighting lesser foes, something I've often wondered why superhero films don't do more of.

Like most of the other recent Marvel films that I've bothered with, the qualities don't got past the surface. The last movie and the film's title promised a brand new day; this is most just more of the same. I admit, I've never been wild about Ned or MJ and I was looking forward to Peter's sacrifice in the last film resulting in a new supporting cast. Instead the entire movie toys with undoing Peter's sacrifice while barely acknowledging the moral quandary of erasing peoples' memories even if to keep them safe.

This felt less like a Spider-Man movie than a 2 1/2 hour prelude to a future film; the increasingly tiresome Marvel method of teasing and promising the future rather than delivering now. The entire movie feels like a post-credit scene.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

This is Holland's most restrained performance as Spidey and Peter, with the hyperactive enthusiasm dialed significantly down.

This is good news.

I admit, I've never been wild about Ned or MJ and I was looking forward to Peter's sacrifice in the last film resulting in a new supporting cast.

I'm with you on all three of these, so it's a little disappointing to read it's more of the same (probably not a complete shocker, though, given the trailers suggested a good degree of interaction between Peter, Ned and Michelle).

This felt less like a Spider-Man movie than a 2 1/2 hour prelude to a future film; the increasingly tiresome Marvel method of teasing and promising the future rather than delivering now. The entire movie feels like a post-credit scene.

Again, probably as expected. The next two films are Avengers, with the first out in a matter of months*. Marvel seem to be promoting it already, so yes, I'm not surprised this is being treated as a warm-up act.

I've read a few details of Sadie Sink's character (despite Marvel's evident protestations that she wasn't who she was). I'm not sure how I feel about the characterisation, but she certainly looks the part.









* I see the two Avengers films are a year apart, which is a pretty huge gap. I'm going to predict that Doomsday is aiming to channel Infinity War by ending on a massive cliffhanger, hoping to get tongues wagging throughout 2027.

 

[Crimson]

Michelle

I'm so indifferent to the character, I either didn't know or recall that her name was Michelle and that she's not this universe's Mary Jane.

I've read a few details of Sadie Sink's character (despite Marvel's evident protestations that she wasn't who she was). I'm not sure how I feel about the characterisation, but she certainly looks the part.

Since you know who the character is, you can also surmise what BND is setting the stage for; even beyond the AVENGERS films. The characterization in this movie does not bode well IMO, but I'm also indifferent to the X-Men so maybe I don't care. My interest in the MCU may have shrunk down to Spider-Man alone; the trailers for DOOMSDAY looks like abysmal fan service of crossovers and cameos.

I'll still be there opening weekend.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

I'm so indifferent to the character, I either didn't know or recall that her name was Michelle and that she's not this universe's Mary Jane.

From what I remember, the MJ moniker was introduced at the end of Homecoming ("My friends call me 'MJ'"), with her being called Michelle up to that point (the "J" is from her surname, Jones). I thought it was a nice way of drawing a parallel with Mary Jane without the pain of her being a radically different characterisation of the actual character. I just wish they'd done something similar with Ned, who could not be further from his comic book namesake.

Since you know who the character is, you can also surmise what BND is setting the stage for; even beyond the AVENGERS films.

Yes indeed.

The characterization in this movie does not bode well IMO,

I read a little about this as well, and found it disappointing.

I'm also indifferent to the X-Men so maybe I don't care.

Is this in the context of the MCU, the previous films up to this point (I remember you mentioning not being a fan of the X-Men films for being too similar to one another and for the focus on tall, handsome Wolverine) or just the characters and the premise?

I feel quite attached to the X-Men having devoured most of the mutant titles in the Eighties. They have a lot of potential, but at this point I'm not overly optimistic about the MCU tapping into this (also, my attachment is likely to magnify any sense of disappointment).

the trailers for DOOMSDAY looks like abysmal fan service of crossovers and cameos.

Yes.

I'll still be there opening weekend.

You and everyone else, I'm sure. Whatever the content or quality, it's going to make a lot of money very quickly.

 

[Crimson]

I read a little about this as well, and found it disappointing.

Since you're not scrupulously avoiding spoilers, disappointing and also, I found, problematic. Sadie's character is presented through most of the movie as a mysterious villain who does truly awful things. Then a Sad Truth is revealed and suddenly the audience is expected to be empathetic. But, no -- the character did truly awful things far beyond any justification. If this is how the MCU plans to introduce mutants, humanity will be justified in hating and fearing mutants. I'll be rooting for the Sentinels.

Is this in the context of the MCU, the previous films up to this point (I remember you mentioning not being a fan of the X-Men films for being too similar to one another and for the focus on tall, handsome Wolverine) or just the characters and the premise?

I'm ambivalent about the X-Men as a concept. Back when my comic book collection numbered in the thousands, I doubt I had more than ten X-Men books. I've always been perplexed by the popularity of that 90s cartoon. To me, that was choppy animation and overwrought voice acting that couldn't compare to the smooth quality of contemporaneous DC cartoons. I kinda, sorta liked a few of the early Fox X-MEN films but I think even they have aged poorly; I think the best of those movies is worse than even a mid-tier MCU entry.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Sadie's character is presented through most of the movie as a mysterious villain who does truly awful things. Then a Sad Truth is revealed and suddenly the audience is expected to be empathetic. But, no -- the character did truly awful things far beyond any justification.

Oh dear. Not a great start for the mutant saga, then.

I'm ambivalent about the X-Men as a concept.

Ah well. You can't love them all, I suppose.

I've always been perplexed by the popularity of that 90s cartoon. To me, that was choppy animation and overwrought voice acting that couldn't compare to the smooth quality of contemporaneous DC cartoons.

I watched the X-Men and Spider-Man animated series in full, but I've seen very little of DC animations of the era. From what I have seen, though. I'd agree.

I kinda, sorta liked a few of the early Fox X-MEN films but I think even they have aged poorly; I think the best of those movies is worse than even a mid-tier MCU entry.

I'm particularly fond of the first two films, and I think the second in particular is a very well-constructed film. I liked Singer's approach to keep it feeling as "real world" as much as possible, and was fine with the lack of colour. Beyond that I'm more ambivalent. And making a mess one of comics' most celebrated storylines (The Dark Phoenix Saga) not once but twice is quite a feat.