Biden's Terrible State of the Union Address

[Angela Channing]

(And nice try, pretending to have discovered Dore's Wikipedia page for the first time).

Dore is completely unknown in the UK, I only became aware of him from the frequent posting of his videos on this forum.

And just why are you so convinced Boris wouldn't take orders from an addled American president? Is his integrity so impressive to you? Is your grasp of power really so rudimentary and naive?

Johnson supports Trump, Johnson was ahead of Biden in supporting Zelenskyy and in the early days Johnson went further than Biden with his support. So you're asking the wrong question, why are you suggesting he did take orders from Biden? Was that more nonsense you saw in a Dore video?

 

[Frank Underwood]

I didn't know Dore was even well enough known to have a Wikipedia page but thank you for drawing my attention to it. Folks, if you're not familiar with who this charlatan is, the first line on his Wikipedia page reads "James Patrick Anthony Dore (born July 26, 1965) is an American stand-up comedian, political commentator, conspiracy theorist, podcaster and YouTube personality." It also details various of his conspiracy theory, many of which I hadn't previously been aware.

I only became aware of him when his nonsense was regularly posted on here during the pandemic when he was spreading distortions and lies about Covid and vaccine safety. How can you say he was saying "truthful things" when the nonsense he was spouting was dangerous and could have lead to people dying.

You do know that anybody can edit Wikipedia, right? That includes people with an axe to grind.

Also, I'm not sure how Dore spread "nonsense" when he regularly interviewed scientists and epidemiologists who were experts in their field. Dore even shared his experience of being injured by the vaccine. And even so, he still regularly said people should consult their doctor before making any medical decisions. That's much more responsible than saying the transmission ends with every vaccinated person or lying about the effectiveness of masks other than the N95. But then, state sanctioned nonsense is your thing.

And as I said before, Dore's only contribution here is the commentary he made on Biden's State of the Union Address. This is pure deflection from Biden's war mongering.

Well that's not true. I heard very few voices who were anti-vaccine conspiracy theorists at any time, in fact from the very beginning all we heard was that vaccines were the only way out of the pandemic and that was even before the first lockdown. This was the overwhelming opinion of scientists and politicians in the UK and I'm sure in the wider world. The anti-vaccine nonsense is a minority view held by a few dangerous attention seeking people who chose to ignore the overwhelming evidence about the safety and efficacy of vaccines.

Oh, it's absolutely true (even mainstream media has acknowledged, yet played off, Covid misinformation as a series of well-intentioned mistakes.)

Here's what Dems thought of the vaccine when Trump was in office:

BIDEN AND HIS ADVISORS SOWED DOUBT ABOUT THE SAFETY OF COVID-19 VACCINES

• In the months leading up to the election, Democrats repeatedly cast doubt and undermined public confidencein the safety and effectiveness of vaccines produced under the Trump administration.
  • Democrats’ dog whistling about vaccines was seized on by anti-vaxxers and led to a rise in vaccine skepticism.
• Joe Bidenquestioned whether a vaccine would be “real.”
  • In August, Biden suggested the vaccines might be unsafe, saying “if and when the vaccine comes, it’s not likely to go through all the tests…and trials that are needed to be done.”
  • In September, Biden legitimized those who were questioning the safety of the vaccines, saying, “who’s going to take the shot? Are you going to be the first one to say sign me up?”
  • Days later, then-Biden Press Secretary Symone Sanders repeatedly refused to say whether Biden would take the COVID vaccine if it was approved before election day.
  • A week later, Biden said the American people “should not have confidence” in the vaccine unless it met his campaign’s specific criteria.
• In September, Kamala Harrisrefused to say whether she would take a vaccine approved before Election Day: “I think that’s going to be an issue for all of us.”
  • Harris said that scientists would not have the “last word” in approving the vaccine, and suggested a vaccine may not be effective.
• Ron Klain, now White House Chief of Staff, tweeted: “When you read how Team Trump played politics with testing it makes you wonder how they will handle vaccines?”

CONGRESSIONAL DEMOCRATS QUESTIONED THE SAFETY OF THE VACCINES

• Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-MN): “We can’t trust the President and take his word, and take a vaccine that might cause harm to us.”
• Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI) said the FDA and CDC “have gotten screwed up by President Trump” and that “unfortunately, they aren’t the gold standard any longer, so you need to take a slightly closer look” at a vaccine.
• Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-CT) suggested – without evidence – that there was political interference in the FDA approval process.
• Sen. Patty Murray (D-WA): “We cannot take for granted this process [of developing a vaccine] will be free of political influence.”
• Sen. Tina Smith (D-MN) suggested that if a vaccine was announced before election day, it would be because of political pressure.

PROMINENT DEMOCRATS SAID THEY WERE “HESITANT” TO GET THE VACCINE

• Former Rep. Katie Hill (D-CA) tweeted she was “skeptical” of getting the vaccine and suggested the vaccine would not be safe, saying that “Trump’s plan is to test the vaccine” on his supporters.

Source: Democrats Repeatedly Undermined The Vaccine

Biden's support of Israel's genocide is terrible but Trump also totally backs Israel's actions. Just because Biden is wrong on this issue it doesn't mean he isn't the best candidate of those who are running.

Pretty much every candidate running is terrible in this regard, and it's more than enough reason for me to not cast a vote for any of them (although I certainly have more.)

By the way, Dore is vehemently against the genocide in Gaza. Does that mean you'll have to start supporting it now since you always believe the opposite of what he says?

This simply isn't true. Johnson is a clown but he wouldn't take orders from any American President. Is that another one of Dore's conspiracy theories?

Johnson supports Trump, Johnson was ahead of Biden in supporting Zelenskyy and in the early days Johnson went further than Biden with his support. So you're asking the wrong question, why are you suggesting he did take orders from Biden? Was that more nonsense you saw in a Dore video?

That didn't come from Dore:

"There were several reasons the negotiations ultimately collapsed, he said, including the need to change the Ukrainian constitution (which had been amended in February 2019 to enshrine the country’s NATO aspirations), and the fact that Johnson had come to Kyiv to inform Ukrainian officials the West wouldn’t sign any agreement with Moscow, instead urging: 'let’s just fight.'

The interview corroborates claims first reported in May 2022 by the broadly Western-aligned Ukrainska Pravda outlet — which reported that Boris Johnson told Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky the West wouldn’t support any peace deal regardless of what Ukraine wanted, and they preferred to keep taking the fight to Russian President Vladimir Putin, who was less powerful than they had thought."

Source: Did the West deliberately prolong the Ukraine war? | Responsible Statecraft

Considering Johnson was speaking for "the West," it's reasonable to believe that includes Biden.

 

[Angela Channing]

You do know that anybody can edit Wikipedia, right? That includes people with an axe to grind.

Also, I'm not sure how Dore spread "nonsense" when he regularly interviewed scientists and epidemiologists who were experts in their field. Dore even shared his experience of being injured by the vaccine. And even so, he still regularly said people should consult their doctor before making any medical decisions. That's much more responsible than saying the transmission ends with every vaccinated person or lying about the effectiveness of masks other than the N95. But then, state sanctioned nonsense is your thing.

Wikipedia also give examples of Dore's conspiracy theories, I don't know how accurate they are but they have to supported by a verified references before they are accepted. I know this from when I changed an entry on another page that I knew to be inaccurate.

The overwhelming opinion in the scientific community was that Covid was far more dangerous than flu and that vaccination was safe. Just because Dore could find a scientist or medic who supported the nonsense he was spouting doesn't mean they were correct.

If a thousand scientists study all the available data of an issue and 999 agree on the correct way to interpret it, do you completely ignore their opinion and promote the opinion of the outlier as being the truth? That would not just be bad science but also bad judgement. Admittedly more than 0.1% of scientists took a view that differed from the majority on Covid and vaccines but the agreement was overwhelming in the direction that Covid was very dangerous and vaccines are safe and effective.

And as I said before, Dore's only contribution here is the commentary he made on Biden's State of the Union Address. This is pure deflection from Biden's war mongering.

You brought Dore into the conversation, not me. I'm perfectly entitled to challenge his opinion because so much of what he says is nonsense and conspiracy theory.

Oh, it's absolutely true (even mainstream media has acknowledged, yet played off, Covid misinformation as a series of well-intentioned mistakes.)

Here's what Dems thought of the vaccine when Trump was in office:

I don't know what conversations were going on in the USA specifically but I was following what was going on in the UK and worldwide. The WHO were providing the most accurate and comprehensive data from the start and throughout the pandemic based on evidence around the globe. They never said anything about vaccines not being safe, in fact they consistently encourage people to take the vaccine. I trust the eminent scientists at the WHO more than an attention-seeking, click-bait producing comedian broadcasting from his basement.

By the way, Dore is vehemently against the genocide in Gaza. Does that mean you'll have to start supporting it now since you always believe the opposite of what he says?

Life is more nuanced than that. Just because someone is right on one issue doesn't mean they are right on everything. You have to look at the evidence yourself and make the judgement for yourself.

"The news highlights the impact of former British Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s efforts to stop negotiations, as journalist Branko Marcetic noted on Twitter. The decision to scuttle the deal coincided with Johnson’s April visit to Kyiv, during which he reportedly urged Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to break off talks with Russia for two key reasons: Putin cannot be negotiated with, and the West isn’t ready for the war to end."

Source: Can Hollywood get Washington to care about nukes again? | Responsible Statecraft

Saying "the West isn't ready for the war to end" implies an alliance with the US on this issue (and Biden by default.)

Where does that say Biden instructed Johnson to visit Zelenskyy to tell him to stop negotiating with Putin? It doesn't. Whether it's from Dore or not, it's still nonsense.

European leaders were ahead of Biden on this because it was closer to us and therefore a more imminent threat. Johnson was pushing for western governments to support Ukraine to fight before Biden even declared his position on this. There would have been no need for Biden to order Johnson to do anything. As I said, the suggestion is complete nonsense.

 

[Frank Underwood]

Wikipedia also give examples of Dore's conspiracy theories, I don't know how accurate they are but they have to supported by a verified references before they are accepted. I know this from when I changed an entry on another page that I knew to be inaccurate.

The overwhelming opinion in the scientific community was that Covid was far more dangerous than flu and that vaccination was safe. Just because Dore could find a scientist or medic who supported the nonsense he was spouting doesn't mean they were correct.

If a thousand scientists study all the available data of an issue and 999 agree on the correct way to interpret it, do you completely ignore their opinion and promote the opinion of the outlier as being the truth? That would not just be bad science but also bad judgement. Admittedly more than 0.1% of scientists took a view that differed from the majority on Covid and vaccines but the agreement was overwhelming in the direction that Covid was very dangerous and vaccines are safe and effective.

I've edited Wikipedia pages before. The changes I made were effective immediately without any fact checking (maybe that's changed in the last few years.)

Even so, how do we know the fact checkers themselves don't have an agenda? Even what makes it on mainstream media is presented through an obvious partisan lens.

And FYI, ignoring so-called "outliers" is bad science (especially when they're well-regarded experts in their field.) These weren't crackpots off the street, and they had every right to make their case. Ultimately, it's up to every individual to decide who to trust. As Dore pointed out, the consensus opinion on Covid was promoted all the time in the mainstream media. And as I've pointed out, certain outlets have asked for a "pandemic amnesty" for the things they got wrong. And yet some people still act like lying about the efficacy of masks and vaccines wasn't something both the government and mainstream media ever engaged in. Fauci even flip flopped on whether masks were needed at all.

You brought Dore into the conversation, not me. I'm perfectly entitled to challenge his opinion because so much of what he says is nonsense and conspiracy theory.

Posting a video of Dore discussing Biden's State of the Union Address is not me "bringing him into the conversation." The meat of the video was Biden's Ukraine war support.

This is what Dore took issue with, so what about that is "nonsense" or a "conspiracy theory?" You were just looking to take a shot at Dore because you dislike him.

I don't know what conversations were going on in the USA specifically but I was following what was going on in the UK and worldwide. The WHO were providing the most accurate and comprehensive data from the start and throughout the pandemic based on evidence around the globe. They never said anything about vaccines not being safe, in fact they consistently encourage people to take the vaccine. I trust the eminent scientists at the WHO more than an attention-seeking, click-bait producing comedian broadcasting from his basement.

Considering we're on the US politics board, I'm relaying the conversations that were going on among American politicians and pundits.

As for Dore, he's a free thinker who challenges establishment narratives. He knows that the government, mainstream media, and big pharma all lie regularly in pursuit of their agenda. You can smear him all you want, but he's not pushing "conspiracy theories" unchecked. Instead, Dore speaks to award winning journalists and experts in the fields of science and medicine. He even fully supported the vaccine until he was injured by it (a claim supported by his doctor.) Far from being an "attention-seeking, click-bait producing comedian broadcasting from his basement," Dore's inquisitive and strives to make sure his audience is informed by hearing ALL sides of an issue, not just the establishment's.

Life is more nuanced than that. Just because someone is right on one issue doesn't mean they are right on everything. You have to look at the evidence yourself and make the judgement for yourself.

I actually agree with that, but it seems like you rail against everything Jimmy Dore says (including when he rightly calls out Biden's continued support of the Ukraine war.)

Where does that say Biden instructed Johnson to visit Zelenskyy to tell him to stop negotiating with Putin? It doesn't. Whether it's from Dore or not, it's still nonsense.

European leaders were ahead of Biden on this because it was closer to us and therefore a more imminent threat. Johnson was pushing for western governments to support Ukraine to fight before Biden even declared his position on this. There would have been no need for Biden to order Johnson to do anything. As I said, the suggestion is complete nonsense.

A distinction without a difference. Johnson no doubt had Biden's support in making that statement. If Johnson wanted support from western governments, he got his wish.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Life is more nuanced than that.

Of all the gall.

 

[Frank Underwood]

Of all the gall.

I knew our alliance with him over the Israel/Palestine conflict would be short lived, but it was fun while it lasted.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

I knew our alliance over the Israel/Palestine conflict would be short lived, but it was fun while it lasted.

Maybe Bibi will slaughter us all and put us out of the misery.

 

[Seaviewer]

A lot of the commentators I heard both in the USA and in the UK said Biden's speech was energetic and well delivered. The general consensus was that he took the fight to Trump and was robust both in pointing out the dangers in electing his immediate predecessor and also in defending his record.

Again we agree, One can criticise his policies, but there was nothing there to suggest he is too demented to serve.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

O, the hushed nobility of some people's foolishness.

 

[Frank Underwood]

Again we agree, One can criticise his policies, but there was nothing there to suggest he is too demented to serve.

This particular thread always was more of an indictment of Biden's policies (and the embellishment of his "accomplishments) than a commentary on his mental decline.

That said, it's well documented that people with dementia have good days and bad days. They can be confused and incoherent one moment, and relatively lucid the next. There are prescriptions that can help as well. Rather than forming an opinion based on one video, one should comb through the many Biden speeches on YouTube. That's when you start to pick up on a pattern of incoherence, confusion, difficulty remember dates, mixing up world leaders (including with ones that are long dead,) etc. The fact that Dem operatives in Biden's inner circle have also expressed concern over his mental state speaks volumes. It's no longer just a MAGA talking point, despite what some people say.

 

[Frank Underwood]

I just saw a new clip from the State of the Union Address. It shows Biden referring to the recently slain nursing student Laken Riley as "Lincoln."

However, that's not what Dems are upset about. They're mad because Biden said she was killed by an "illegal." It's odd to see what literal cheerleaders of war are triggered by.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

This particular thread always was more of an indictment of Biden's policies (and the embellishment of his "accomplishments) than a commentary on his mental decline.

That said, it's well documented that people with dementia have good days and bad days. They can be confused and incoherent one moment, and relatively lucid the next. There are prescriptions that can help as well. Rather than forming an opinion based on one video, one should comb through the many Biden speeches on YouTube. That's when you start to pick up on a pattern of incoherence, confusion, difficulty remember dates, mixing up world leaders (including with ones that are long dead,) etc. The fact that Dem operatives in Biden's inner circle have also expressed concern over his mental state speaks volumes. It's no longer just a MAGA talking point, despite what some people say.

Oh, yeah. Those amphetamines can be wonderful once they kick in -- at least for situational situations.

BTW: Of course, the old moniker "conspiracy theorist" is the refuge of the intellectually lazy, who pat themselves on the back for misperceiving their own ignorance as being tantamount to wisdom.

In fact, there is a (truthful) conspiracy theory about the very term "conspiracy theorist" -- it was introduced into the American lexicon in 1964 by the intel community to counter bourgeoning criticisms of the Warren Commission's "lone nut" scenario regarding JFK's assassination.

And it's been useful ever since.

No one with any real intelligence or genuine awareness ever uses the phrase "conspiracy theorist" as a dismissive smear. And when someone is dispensing actual nonsense (like an Alex Jones/Q-anon kind of way) you can -- and will -- take on the flawed details of their misguided arguments without resorting to ruthlessly lame accusations of "conspiracy theorist." Because the substance of your debunking will be enough.

I just saw a new clip from the State of the Union Address. It shows Biden referring to the recently slain nursing student Laken Riley as "Lincoln."

However, that's not what Dems are upset about. They're mad because Biden said she was killed by an "illegal." It's odd to see what literal cheerleaders of war are triggered by.

Yes, it's hard to walk the woke carpet and not stumble occasionally. You can never be compliant enough for their tastes. (In fact, the more you try, the worse it is for you, as they view you as a "weak" soft-target --- which is why they've "cancelled" more lefties than conservatives).