Pink Floyd needs no education

[Jock Ewing Fan]

Its a two-party system which is utterly corrupt and unsalvageable as it is..



FOX and MSNBC say different things. The Dems and the Repubs say different things. But it's all good-cop/bad-cop political theater designed to trick people into thinking they have a real democracy when it's completely bought out. And will remain so.

The American government doesn't give a damn about the people of Ukraine -- but why would they when the American government doesn't even care about its own
people.

Fox and MSNBC are cable news channels, not considered the lamestream media. You cite 2 relative outliers rather than entities such as ABC, NDC,CBS, NYTimes, Washington Post, etc. Come on , you know better than that.

I do agree about how the people of the USA are disregarded by their reps.

 

[Frank Underwood]

I doubt Biden would first say they could stop Nord Stream, then send intel to countries that they suspect someone will attack the pipelines very soon, and then do it. It sounds too much like the theories that Bush Jr ordered the 9/11 attacks.

When the US attacks a country, they usually defend their actions publically just before they attack. It's not as sneaky, it's much more straight-forward.

This pipeline attack smells Russia. They get to play the victim while they don't have to deliver gas to Europe. They force Europe's already extremely expensive electricity prices up. And if Russia gets to play the victim of attacks, they can tell their people that others are attacking and they have to defend themselves more, and take the decent part of Ukraine in the process.

The war has been going bad for Russia. Putin thought it would be easy and fast. It didn't, so he has to get sneakier, uglier and more desperate. Like taking Russian prisoners and forcing them out to war, as well as non-military men. If they refuse, they go to jail.

Now that Russia has declared 4 Ukrainian provinces as Russia using fake elections, Putin is bound to say that anyone trying to take "Russian ground" will regret it. Probably teasing nuclear weapons.

I never believed Bush orchestrated the 9/11 attacks, but they certainly made the public more inclined to support the wars he waged in the name of "fighting terrorism." Of course, Bush didn't have to orchestrate the 9/11 attacks to benefit from them. Sitting on the intelligence about the impending attacks was enough to accomplish that goal.

As for the Nord Stream pipelines, Biden's veiled threat isn't the only thing suspicious about their sabotage. Biden's Secretary of State Antony Blinken also made it clear that the destruction of the pipelines better serves US interests than it does Putin. He said "There’s a lot of hard work to do to make sure that countries and partners get through the winter. Europe itself has taken very significant steps to both decrease demand but also look at ways to pursue the transition to renewables at the same time. And ultimately this is also a tremendous opportunity. It’s a tremendous opportunity to once and for all remove the dependence on Russian energy and thus to take away from Vladimir Putin the weaponization of energy as a means of advancing his imperial designs. That’s very significant and that offers tremendous strategic opportunity for the years to come."

Of course, we can't allow Putin to advance his imperial designs. Only we're allowed to do that.

 

[Emelee]

I never believed Bush orchestrated the 9/11 attacks, but they certainly made the public more inclined to support the wars he waged in the name of "fighting terrorism." Of course, Bush didn't have to orchestrate the 9/11 attacks to benefit from them. Sitting on the intelligence about the impending attacks was enough to accomplish that goal.

As for the Nord Stream pipelines, Biden's veiled threat isn't the only thing suspicious about their sabotage. Biden's Secretary of State Antony Blinken also made it clear that the destruction of the pipelines better serves US interests than it does Putin. He said "There’s a lot of hard work to do to make sure that countries and partners get through the winter. Europe itself has taken very significant steps to both decrease demand but also look at ways to pursue the transition to renewables at the same time. And ultimately this is also a tremendous opportunity. It’s a tremendous opportunity to once and for all remove the dependence on Russian energy and thus to take away from Vladimir Putin the weaponization of energy as a means of advancing his imperial designs. That’s very significant and that offers tremendous strategic opportunity for the years to come."

Of course, we can't allow Putin to advance his imperial designs. Only we're allowed to do that.

Europe isn't benefitting from the attack, and won't for a long time. Electricity & petrol are already sky high. Many small business have to either close down, produce during nights or let go of staff. Many cities are turning off all street lights after a certain time of night. All cities are saving electricity. I hear cities turning off the ventilation systems in public buildings longer periods of time, including schools. And turning down the indoor temperature in city-owned buildings. My pupils have felt it. They feel that the school building has gotten a bit colder. I have to tell them to bring extra sweaters and warmer socks.

I just don't see why the USA would do this to us.

Meanwhile in Russia, they don't suffer from higher gas prices. The inflation they've endured for a long time already is what gets to them.

 

[Frank Underwood]

Europe isn't benefitting from the attack, and won't for a long time. Electricity & petrol are already sky high. Many small business have to either close down, produce during nights or let go of staff. Many cities are turning off all street lights after a certain time of night. All cities are saving electricity. I hear cities turning off the ventilation systems in public buildings longer periods of time, including schools. And turning down the indoor temperature in city-owned buildings. My pupils have felt it. They feel that the school building has gotten a bit colder. I have to tell them to bring extra sweaters and warmer socks.

I just don't see why the USA would do this to us.

Meanwhile in Russia, they don't suffer from higher gas prices. The inflation they've endured for a long time already is what gets to them.

Sadly, I think the answer as to why the US would do this is greed.

When I quoted Biden's Secretary of State, I didn't realize that he also bragged that the US is now “the leading supplier of LNG (liquified natural gas) to Europe.”

In May, Reuters reported that "President Joe Biden, a Democrat, has opposed the $11 billion project that would take Russian gas from the Arctic to Germany, saying it is a bad deal for Europe. The United States is an exporter of natural gas to Europe in the form of LNG, but Russian gas is cheaper." Reuters did mention that the Biden Administration ultimately waived sanctions on Nord Stream 2 in order to "mend Europe ties," but that could have been for optics. Either way, Europe has to rely heavily on the US now.
Source: https://www.reuters.com/business/en...ias-nord-stream-2-pipeline-source-2021-05-19/

I get that this is all circumstantial, and Putin is far from a boy scout. However, I simply can't rule out US involvement based on statements from the Biden Administration.

 

[Frank Underwood]

Columbia University Professor Jeffrey Sachs went on Bloomberg to discuss the mounting evidence pointing to US involvement in the sabotage of the Nord Stream pipelines. Along with citing statements from the President and the Secretary of State, Sachs also said there is radar evidence that US military helicopters were circling over the area. The two pundits pushed back, and one of them actually said "I don't want to get into tit for tat what did or did not happen with Nord Stream." However, Sachs already made his case.

In this video, the commentator also plays a clip of US diplomat Victoria Nuland stating "If Russia invades Ukraine, one way or another, Nord Stream 2 will not move forward."

Wait, what the F*CK did he just say about Nord Stream pipeline? | Redacted with Clayton Morris - YouTube

 

[Frank Underwood]

Fox and MSNBC are cable news channels, not considered the lamestream media. You cite 2 relative outliers rather than entities such as ABC, NDC,CBS, NYTimes, Washington Post, etc. Come on , you know better than that.

I'm confused as to how Fox and MSNBC are not considered part of the mainstream media since they're corporately owned and spout the narrative of their chosen parties. The same goes for CNN. Either way, you're primarily getting information with a neocon/neoliberal bent. The main thing that separates them is their stance on the culture wars.

I also hear people talk about Fox, MSNBC, and CNN far more than any other outlet when it comes to conversations about the mainstream media. I find the other sources of mainstream media you mentioned just as odious, but their propaganda doesn't run 24/7. When I think of outliers, I think of independent media outlets on sites like YouTube.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

I'm confused as to how Fox and MSNBC are not considered part of the mainstream media since they're corporately owned and spout the narrative of their chosen parties. The same goes for CNN. Either way, you're primarily getting information with a neocon/neoliberal bent. The main thing that separates them is their stance on the culture wars.

I also hear people talk about Fox, MSNBC, and CNN far more than any other outlet when it comes to conversations about the mainstream media. I find the other sources of mainstream media you mentioned just as odious, but their propaganda doesn't run 24/7. When I think of outliers, I think of independent media outlets on sites like YouTube.

Maybe you are right, I would need to check viewing figures, etc. But surely, anyone would have to agree that with the exception of Fox, most of the lamestream media is slanted left, if not somewhere between middle left and extreme left.

Again, Nancy Pelosi's odious comments would be 24/7 news if a conservative politician had said that.

The best sources, at least IMHO are wall Street Journal, whose financial reporting is excellent, Reuters, and to an extent AP.

 

[Frank Underwood]

Maybe you are right, I would need to check viewing figures, etc. But surely, anyone would have to agree that with the exception of Fox, most of the lamestream media is slanted left, if not somewhere between middle left and extreme left.

Yes, they definitely appeal to the extreme left. IMO, these are the people who perverted what it means to be on the left with their identity politics and woke mentality.

To me, being on the left used to mean being for diplomacy, economic equality, and civil rights for all. Now it revolves around the oppression olympics. Specific groups with personalized agendas are pandered to while cis straight white men are told they're evil. Of course, corporations and the military industrial complex saw an opportunity to appeal to the gullible clowns in the woke mob by creating ads involving "diversity and inclusion." Thus, the woke mob supports them and overlooks the nefarious things they do.

Again, Nancy Pelosi's odious comments would be 24/7 news if a conservative politician had said that.

Absolutely. The majority of the media is in the neoliberal camp, so they only get outraged when Republicans say or do something ignorant and repulsive.

On the other hand, the few Republican news sources do the same thing in reverse when it comes to shilling for their side. Fox even tried turning Obama's tan suit and choice of mustard into a scandal. IMO, they should have gone after him for substantive things like his war mongering or his drone bombing of a 16 year old US citizen in Yemen.

And yet some on Fox (namely Tucker Carlson) will occasionally let genuine lefties on to tell the truth about war and corporate America, which CNN and MSNBC never do.

The best sources, at least IMHO are wall Street Journal, whose financial reporting is excellent, Reuters, and to an extent AP.

The Wall Street Journal ran a few hit pieces on Bernie Sanders and social democracy that I didn't find particularly fair, but pretty much all of mainstream media is guilty of that.

Reuters and the AP seem mostly neutral from what I've seen, but I wouldn't be surprised if they occasionally let their biases slip in there too.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Who knows for sure about what happened to the pipeline, but Jeffery Sachs makes a good point about why the official version could be questioned:

NY TImes SHUTS DOWN U.S. Critic At “Democracy Forum” - YouTube

 

[Frank Underwood]

Who knows for sure about what happened to the pipeline, but Jeffery Sachs makes a good point about why the official version could be questioned:

NY TImes SHUTS DOWN U.S. Critic At “Democracy Forum” - YouTube

It's amazing how quickly people like Sachs are shut down for speaking out about US imperialism. What's equally disturbing is many people still trust the mainstream media.

Even the so-called progressives are firmly on the side of Ukraine and vote to send them billions. In defending his yes vote, Bernie Sanders resorted to saber-rattling. He said “We should always have a debate, but the problem is that Ukraine is in the middle of a very intense war right now. I think every day counts, and I think we have to respond as strongly and vigorously as we can." "Responding as strongly and vigorously as we can" clearly means inserting ourselves militarily and financially in a conflict we helped create.

Progressives in the House also voted to send billions to Ukraine, but they recently wrote a letter to Biden asking him to discuss a diplomatic end to the war with Russia. But like the corrupt cowards they are, they quickly withdrew the letter due to backlash from their own party. Pramila Jayapal, the chair of the Progressive Caucus, said “The letter was drafted several months ago, but unfortunately was released by staff without vetting." IMO, that sounds like a bullshit excuse to cover their capitulation to Dem leadership. Even Sanders disagreed with the letter, stating "I don't agree with that, and they don't agree with it, apparently. It was withdrawn today, so it becomes a non-issue."

Sanders also responded to claims that Democrats are war mongers. He said “Democrats, war mongers? When you have Putin breaking all kinds of international laws, unleashing an incredibly disgusting and horrific level of destruction against the people of Ukraine?” And to think I supported this guy. This is such a typical neocon point of view that sees the US as the world police. Sanders also did one of those propaganda "most important election in our lifetime" videos the Dems put out EVERY SINGLE ELECTION CYCLE. As with all faux progressives, he puts all of the blame on Republicans while claiming that people are merely "disappointed that the Democrats in Congress have not done more to stand up and fight for working families." The truth is they haven't fought at all to help anybody except their corporate donors and Ukraine. Sanders then claims to share our disappointment, but fear mongers that Republicans are a threat to democracy and will push the country further right (didn't the Dems already let that happen?)

The older I get, the more I understand George Carlin's position on voting and politics. I'm tired of being conned by frauds who end up claiming to be "good" imperialists.

COWARDLY House Progressives Retract Letter Calling For Ukraine Negotiations - YouTube

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

It's amazing how quickly people like Sachs are shut down for speaking out about US imperialism. What's equally disturbing is many people still trust the mainstream media.

Even the so-called progressives are firmly on the side of Ukraine and vote to send them billions. In defending his yes vote, Bernie Sanders resorted to saber-rattling. He said “We should always have a debate, but the problem is that Ukraine is in the middle of a very intense war right now. I think every day counts, and I think we have to respond as strongly and vigorously as we can." "Responding as strongly and vigorously as we can" clearly means inserting ourselves militarily and financially in a conflict we helped create.

Progressives in the House also voted to send billions to Ukraine, but they recently wrote a letter to Biden asking him to discuss a diplomatic end to the war with Russia. But like the corrupt cowards they are, they quickly withdrew the letter due to backlash from their own party. Pramila Jayapal, the chair of the Progressive Caucus, said “The letter was drafted several months ago, but unfortunately was released by staff without vetting." IMO, that sounds like a bullshit excuse to cover their capitulation to Dem leadership. Even Sanders disagreed with the letter, stating "I don't agree with that, and they don't agree with it, apparently. It was withdrawn today, so it becomes a non-issue."

Sanders also responded to claims that Democrats are war mongers. He said “Democrats, war mongers? When you have Putin breaking all kinds of international laws, unleashing an incredibly disgusting and horrific level of destruction against the people of Ukraine?” And to think I supported this guy. This is such a typical neocon point of view that sees the US as the world police. Sanders also did one of those propaganda "most important election in our lifetime" videos the Dems put out EVERY SINGLE ELECTION CYCLE. As with all faux progressives, he puts all of the blame on Republicans while claiming that people are merely "disappointed that the Democrats in Congress have not done more to stand up and fight for working families." The truth is they haven't fought at all to help anybody except their corporate donors and Ukraine. Sanders then claims to share our disappointment, but fear mongers that Republicans are a threat to democracy and will push the country further right (didn't the Dems already let that happen?)

The older I get, the more I understand George Carlin's position on voting and politics. I'm tired of being conned by frauds who end up claiming to be "good" imperialists.

COWARDLY House Progressives Retract Letter Calling For Ukraine Negotiations - YouTube

Oh, I know. The problem with Sanders -- in addition to never being very strong on foreign policy even in his best days -- is that he tries to work within the system every time the DNC screws him over, because he doesn't know what else to do. And for his trouble they call him a misogynistic Russian puppet anyway.

 

[Frank Underwood]

Oh, I know. The problem with Sanders -- in addition to never being very strong on foreign policy even in his best days -- is that he tries to work within the system every time the DNC screws him over, because he doesn't know what else to do. And for his trouble they call him a misogynistic Russian puppet anyway.

Precisely right, which makes it even more embarrassing. That's why Jimmy Dore calls him a cuck. All that loyalty to a party that hates him and will never accept him.

The sad thing is just about every politician is an imperialist to some degree. I admire Tulsi Gabbard's stance against regime change wars, but even she supports drone strikes.