Marvel Watching the Marvel Cinematic Universe from the beginning...

[Mel O'Drama]

Thor


continued​

There’s always value to be found in worlds colliding, and there’s plenty of that to be found here. Some of the early “Thor on Earth” scenes were terrific fun, and I have to add that I absolutely adored the New Mexico scenery. And the presentation of the Frost Giants was positively Whovian, no doubt leading to many kids hiding behind the sofa.

As a leading character, I find Thor himself significantly less interesting than Tony Stark or Bruce Banner. He lacks many of the human weaknesses displayed by the other leading men, and so is less easy to connect with. My journey with him felt more objective.

That’s not to say it’s not a character-driven film in its own way. But I couldn’t spend an entire two hours watching Thor doing pretty much nothing in the same way I could Bruce Banner. By himself he’s just not that interesting to me.

For me, the best of Thor was in the interactions between characters and so was a real ensemble piece. Fortunately, I’d say this film had a very watchable extended cast. If there was one character I could have done without, it’s Darcy. I did fear I was going to be in for a really testing time with during her first couple of scenes with her bland quips, but she seemed to get pushed into the background (and rightfully so) as the film progressed. All the same, there were no characters that really grated or were unlikeable (unless it was in the best possible way). Putting different components together - be it on Asgard, on Earth or any combination thereof - created an exciting energy.

I get the sense that Loki is kind of a breakout character in the MCU - or certainly very popular. So far I’m a little underwhelmed. He’s fun to watch, but the writing around him lacks subtlety at times and consequently, moments where he told Thor their father was dead and their mother had forbidden Thor’s return to Asgard, or made a deal with the Frost Giants to slay his own father felt more panto villain than truly sinister. I never truly felt a sense of jeopardy from them. All the same, it’s going to be interesting to see what’s next for him.

Phil Coulson’s presence brought a nice sense of continuity to the universe. I’m enjoying how shady both he and S.H.I.E.L.D. are proving to be in these films. I think the character’s ruthless side really clicked with me in Iron Man 2 when he matter of factly told Tony that if he tried to escape he would tase him “and watch Supernanny while you drool into the carpet”. In this film he interrogated Thor, warning him that S.H.I.E.L.D. is very good at finding out what they need to know. And then there’s the whole swarming into Jane and Erik’s residence and forcibly taking every scrap of data and every device to help themselves to years’ worth of research. What next, I wonder.

Oh, and the little Easter Egg for Marvel fans with a little scene featuring Hawkeye was a nice touch. Plus the now-requisite Nick Fury post-credits scene (I actually don't know what that case was all about). And some text announcing that Thor will appear in The Avengers. Spoiler-ish, perhaps, but oh so exciting.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

I'm really struggling with ranking Thor and so I'm going to weigh up the evidence here before making a decision (which I'll probably regret later anyway)

• The first half of Thor is my favourite hour of any Marvel film to date and nearly pushed it into #1
• Taking the film as a whole, I definitely prefer the first Iron Man, but...
• Thor is head-and-shoulders above Iron Man 2.

Which means it's a battle between The Incredible Hulk and Thor:

• Thor has the least interesting of the three male lead characters to date but...
• It has the most consistently watchable ensemble
• In terms of scale Thor feels like the more ambitious, and it's mostly pulled off
• Thor feels more integrated into the MCU than The Incredible Hulk does, but...
• TIH is a fun ride and is probably more easily enjoyed independently
• The Incredible Hulk has Ed Norton
• Thor has Anthony Hopkins
• Thor's second half lags a bit
• The Incredible Hulk has that ghastly CGI battle

Damn it. Although I love The Incredible Hulk far more than most seem to, I simply can't get past that bloody Hulk/Abomination battle. And Thor has done the unthinkable in getting me to invest a character I previously didn't enjoy.


And so it's...

1. Iron Man
2. Thor
3. The Incredible Hulk
4. Iron Man 2

But I can't promise I won't change my mind after they've resonated for a bit.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Marvel One-Shot: The Consultant (2011)​

More than anything, this short highlights the overlapping continuity between The Incredible Hulk and Thor, which still confuses me since it seems they take place during the same time period (I think Iron Man 2 may be somewhere in the mix as well). In fact this takes that confusion to the next level, since Jasper Sitwell made his debut in Thor but is seen here discussing - and influencing - events in The Incredible Hulk with Coulson.

I do enjoy how it gets into the minutiae of things we didn’t even know we wanted to know. Like what the real agenda was in sending Tony Stark to meet Thunderbolt Ross. And the fact that Ross, irritated with Stark, threatened to have him removed from the bar which led to Tony buying and demolishing it.

Since The Incredible Hulk had a pre-credits scene only, this might have made a great mid or post-credits scene in that film. As a standalone piece it’s is fairly underwhelming and probably best understood once one has watched the films several times, and so one for the die-hard fans. But it is a nice way of tying things together even more tightly.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Captain America: The First Avenger (2011)

​

With the exception of Iron Man 2, every single film so far has seemed a viable contender to rank as my #1 during its first hour. And with the exception of Iron Man*, those contenders have been downgraded slightly in their latter stages. The Incredible Hulk had the Duel Of Harlem which went on forever, without which it would have almost certainly been my favourite film so far. My fervour for Thor’s greatness waned as it segued from Duel at the Rainbow Bridge to its banqueting scenes and whatnot. Cap, too, would have been a much better film for me had the final chase been significantly shorter.

I really can’t help but start to glaze over during these scenes. As previously mentioned, this aspect of action films isn’t my cup of tea anyway, but that’s not to say I can’t get invested if it’s well-done. Some Bond films, for example, have had terrific action scenes. The Marvel ones feel too artificial and I think they also seem a bit too polished, with an over-reliance on computer generated imagery and green screen. The chase on top of the train was a key example of this: it’s a concept that’s been used in many films, and many older films - forced to do it completely practically - feel more exciting than the one in Cap. There’s little sense of speed or gravity and so it’s easy for the viewer to tune out (for me, the most thrilling chase sequence in the MCU so far was the pursuit of Bruce through crowded Brazilian streets in The Incredible Hulk).

I now fully understand what @Crimson meant by the “plodding third acts”.

With most of the films on a fairly level playing field in this regard, my overall view of the entire film then depends on two things:

• Just how terrible are the bad aspects of the film?
• Apart from the factors that weigh it down, just how good is the rest of the film?

It’s for this reason I started with my slightly more negative view of the third act. Despite what I’ve written so far about the film, the fact is that there’s so much I love about the film that if I hadn’t started here it could have turned into a whole gush-fest.


Let the gushing commence...

continued...





​

* I'm currently taking the view that the best of films like Captain America or even The Incredible Hulk were actually better than the best of Iron Man BUT Iron Man didn't have their lows. Or did it?

At this point, it's difficult to say if Iron Man is really is as flawless as I seem to think of it being compared with later films OR if it made such a great impression simply by virtue of being the first one I watched.

I don't remember having any issues with the running time or feeling that any particular parts dragged as I have with almost every film since then. But is that because it really was better in structure OR have I become more nitpicky now that I've settled into watching and the honeymoon period is over.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Captain America: The First Avenger (2011)

continued​

Let’s start with the period setting. It makes this film feel incredibly special. It looks absolutely gorgeous, and I love that the atmospheric drab earth tones of set dressings and costumes are matched by the palettes used in cinematography (I’m assuming achieved at least partly by filters). Whereas in Thor many of the indoor scenes on Asgard simply looked dark and, at times, uncomfortably underlit, here the darkness feels sumptuous and inviting. Even when the hues in an outdoor scene take on a colder grey palette it still feels attractively so: as though one is looking at a gorgeous charcoal drawing. This film finds beauty in the ordinary.

Perhaps the most impressive achievement with the early Forties setting is that it doesn’t feel aggressively vintage. By which I mean it doesn’t feel as though fashions and expressions and other elements specific to the Forties have been played up to the point of artifice. There’s a nice balance struck in acknowledging the time period while still allowing characters to behave naturally and the film overall to fit tonally into the wider MCU. I was pleasantly surprised at how smooth the transition into present day was, despite being done as a shocking reveal rather than easing us in with scenes showing him being discovered and thawed out (or whatever the MCU version will be).

I appreciated, too, that there were a few moments when it became more aggressively vintage feeling, by blasting out the retro nods during moments like Cap’s tour with the USO showing his increasing polish and confidence in the Cap role as they visited different stops. This part reminded me greatly of the Let Me Entertain You sequence in Gypsy which progressed the story, character and time in a similar way for Louise evolving into Gypsy Rose Lee. And then there were those amazingly three dimensional poster images during the closing titles. What a treat.

Not having lived through the time, it’s difficult to say how authentic it actually is. I dare say there are a number of anachronisms, but there were very few glaring examples that leapt out at me. In terms of language, there was one moment where a character (Steve, I think) responded to a question with “Pretty much”, which sounded a little too contemporary to my British ears. Howard Stark had a bit of Valley Girl vocal fry going on (perhaps a natural thing for a Brit to do when imitating contemporary accents. I’m sure some people used it during the Forties, but it wouldn’t have been as commonplace as it would be in 2011).

Of course, the character of Agent Carter could be viewed one big anachronism, though in Marvel terms she makes perfect sense as a character who embodies the outcome of First Wave feminism (one can easily imagine her having been an activist with a body like the Six Point Group pre-war) and someone who has got to shine thanks to (necessarily) relaxed attitudes towards women’s roles during World War II.

continued...​

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Captain America: The First Avenger (2011)

continued​

Anachronistic or not, I have to say I LOVE Peggy Carter. I wasn’t familiar with her comics iteration and so she’s made a great first impression on me and is the most enjoyable love interest/female lead so far. It’s fair to say I’m thoroughly looking forward to watching her series a little down the line.

I’m extremely grateful the MCU is centred around Avengers characters. Since I only read the title occasionally I don’t feel as attached to the characters as I do Marvel’s mutant characters, those in Spider-Man or the FF’s universe. This means I can mostly enjoy the characters and storylines unfettered by expectation.

Because of this, in common with Iron Man, Thor and Hulk, I’ve never particularly felt a strong connection with the character of Cap. I’ve read and enjoyed a number of stories in which he’s been involved but rarely sought out his solo title as I found him a little bland (oh - the sacrilege). While, again, I didn’t find Steve Rogers on film as fascinating a character as Tony Stark, Bruce Banner or Peter Parker, I did enjoy the journey he had in this origin story Chris Evans did a really nice job with him.

When Chris was first cast, I remember feeling that I may not be able to get past the association of him playing the Human Torch. As it turns out, I barely gave this any thought as I watched the film (helped a little by the fact that I haven’t watched either of his FF films in many years now). This film also gave a really nice example of special effects being really well used for the pre-Super Soldier Serum Steve.

The Red Skull makes a great villain. Not only dark and grim in purpose but also visually interesting while not feeling so CGI that he looks like a character on a gaming console (Abomination, I’m looking at you).

I also felt incredibly excited by the introduction of Hydra to the MCU as I love what they bring to the comics universe. Seeing those authentic-looking uniforms all lined up to “Hail Hydra” was an absolute thrill. And it’s got me even more excited about the possibility of a Jessica Drew Spider-Woman film down the line.

Stanley Tucci was just marvellous in this as well.

Going back to the two key questions at the beginning, the elements of this film that threatened to spoil my enjoyment actually weren’t that problematic. I’d say it would have benefitted from being a little leaner in the final act as the chase felt too long and (like Thor) the film itself ultimately felt ten or fifteen minutes too long. The other issue was Cap’s mask which just doesn’t look good. Frankly, that head covering mask and the wings simply isn’t a design that translates well to film. No matter what tweaks are made, it always looks a little wrong (and I’ve seen it look worse). It’s easy to understand why the film posters show him in costume but sans mask. Oh, and no matter how advanced Hydra tech may be, I really could have done without those laser gun thingies that evaporated people. It just felt too cartoony and convenient. These are relatively small gripes, though.

As far as how good the rest of the film was: I'll be ranking my films to date very shortly so watch this space.

 

[Crimson]

This early in your MCU experience, I'm finding it difficult to jump in. With too much foreknowledge, I risk revealing too much even if I try to keep my comments vague.

I think if I were to summarise the reason it’s because, for me, the best Marvel characters were always accessible. While DC had the beyond aspirational fantasy of their gods and aliens, Marvel characters were students who worried about money, quibbling families, outcasts who had to hide their truths. They had human failings and frailties, from blindness to alcoholism to self-doubt. Thor was of a different world. It’s also highly probable he wasn’t particularly well-written in the times I’ve encountered him.

Thor is perhaps the most DC of all of Marvel's characters, just as Batman morphed into perhaps the most Marvel of DC's heroes. I've always been partial to Thor, but then I tend to like those boldly noble heroes like Thor, Wonder Woman, Captain America and even Cyclops.

(I read comic books from the mid-80s to around 2000. Whatever has been done to these characters in comics since would be mostly unknown to me, although I suspect many of them would be unrecognizable to me in later years.)

These kinds of heroic characters may work in the broad strokes of comic books or even cartoons "meant for" kids, but are harder to pull off in the real life approximation of film. While Thor was initially the blandest of the heroes -- but, as vaguely as possible, he has some of the most interesting developments down the line -- what little personality he had was, oddly enough, grafted on from Marvel's Hercules. Which makes me wonder what Marvel will do when and if they get around to introducing Herc.

Marvel One-Shot: The Consultant (2011)

I'm not even sure I knew this existed; I don't recall ever seeing it.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

This early in your MCU experience, I'm finding it difficult to jump in. With too much foreknowledge, I risk revealing too much even if I try to keep my comments vague.

I can understand that. Even doing a little reading on something I've already watched I'm finding a few little spoilers of things to come based on the interwoven chronology.

Thanks for thinking of my viewing experience. I have had a couple of significant spoilers so it's not the end of the world if something I don't know gets dropped in. I certainly don't mind the occasional little teaser.

Thor is perhaps the most DC of all of Marvel's characters, just as Batman morphed into perhaps the most Marvel of DC's heroes.

Absolutely. Thor's always felt very DC to me.

I've always been partial to Thor, but then I tend to like those boldly noble heroes like Thor, Wonder Woman, Captain America and even Cyclops.

I find it a little odd that I love Wonder Woman and all the mythology and iconography, but I've never quite found that enjoyment in Thor. I'd put that down to discovering WW at a formative age and through the TV series which dispensed with most of the mythology. I enjoyed the character so much I grew to enjoy the more fantastical elements surrounding her as I discovered her in print.

Cyclops is a character I love for his bold nobility, and I like that you've drawn parallels with him and Thor and Cap. That may well have a positive influence on how I view them in future films.

(I read comic books from the mid-80s to around 2000. Whatever has been done to these characters in comics since would be mostly unknown to me, although I suspect many of them would be unrecognizable to me in later years.)

It's similar for me. My knowledge and "canon" of the characters tends to be around what happened during (and before) the era in which I read comics regularly, which is probably from the beginning of the Eighties to the mid-Nineties.

I'm not even sure I knew this existed; I don't recall ever seeing it.

There were five One-Shots in all, which appeared as bonus features on the Blu-rays released from 2011-2013 and also show up in the Extras section devoted to those same films on Disney+ (which is how I'm watching).

I suspect you'd enjoy checking them out if you get the chance as seem to they add little enhancements to the existing storylines in the films. I'm especially excited to see that one of the One-Shots is Agent Carter, which I might save to precede the series.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

Here's the state of play with the Marvelometer as we near the end of Phase One...


As mentioned earlier, I have a newfound (and possibly needless) doubt over whether Iron Man is as good as I remembered which may be a factor here.

I did check the time during Captain America, but it has so much great stuff going for it. Namely:

• The gorgeous, classy period setting
• Unhurried pacing which takes its time to set up the story (a true luxury in this genre, and a bold move that deserves recognition)
• A great villain
• The introduction of Hydra
• The wonderfully atmospheric score
• The BEST supporting cast of any MCU film to date
• A nice twist with the time jump
• The perfect closing line
• The setup for the following film

Factor in that Iron Man seems to be the favoured film of the two among fans in general, and I do like to champion the underdog.

And it’s:

1. Captain America: The First Avenger
2. Iron Man
3. The Incredible Hulk
4. Thor
5. Iron Man 2

Yes: I did bump The Incredible Hulk up the list. The more the films resonate, the more enjoyable it becomes in my head, despite its wretched Duel Of Harlem. Plus it’s another underdog.

 

[Crimson]

While, again, I didn’t find Steve Rogers on film as fascinating a character as Tony Stark, Bruce Banner or Peter Parker, I did enjoy the journey he had in this origin story Chris Evans did a really nice job with him.

For my money, Chris Evans is the most perfectly cast of the MCU heroes. He looks like he leapt out of a comic book, just as Christopher Reeve and Lynda Carter had. That isn't the case with most of the MCU actors. RDJ is great, but he doesn't look or act like any version of Tony Stark I was familiar with from comics; he developed a new version of the character around his own persona.

Here's the state of play with the Marvelometer as we near the end of Phase One...

I had paid virtually no attention to these films at the time of their release; I hadn't seen any of them in theaters. Despite my love of comic books, the idea of super hero films mostly seemed like fools' gold. Sure, every so often there'd be a great film or two, but mostly they were awful; and even the good franchises
turned to dreck after a movie or two. The MCU seemed like a folly. I'm still incredulous that they pulled it off.

With some minor adjustments, so far your rankings are fairly aligned with my own.

 

[darkshadows38]

The (2003) Hulk film is garbage and for me it's not really the script it's a decent script it's the editing and the directing that bothers me, the editing was awful the split screen now i don't hate films with split screens it can work if it's oh i dunno (1973) where it worked for that time period or hell More American Graffitti (1979) which is still a pretty good movie even though i wish that hadn't been used it was a film for it's time. but a film in (2003) it just felt out of place.

i think the (2008) one which really needed a better script as well was miles better than the (2003)

 

[Angela Channing]

1. Captain America: The First Avenger
2. Iron Man
3. The Incredible Hulk
4. Thor
5. Iron Man 2

I've not seen Thor but I agree with you ranking Captain America: The First Avenger highly. I think it's a top notch film with a strong story and great action sequences. Personally I would rank The Incredible Hulk above Iron Man although it's a close thing as I really enjoyed both films. Iron Man 2 would be 4th on my list, a great film but not quite as good as the others.

 

[darkshadows38]

Captain American (2011) is a damn good movie and is easily one of the best

 

[Mel O'Drama]

There were five One-Shots in all, which appeared as bonus features on the Blu-rays released from 2011-2013 and also show up in the Extras section devoted to those same films on Disney+ (which is how I'm watching).

Damn. The remaining four One-Shots after The Consultant are all absent from their respective Extras and I can't find them anywhere else on the channel. Looks like I'll be sticking to the films.

For my money, Chris Evans is the most perfectly cast of the MCU heroes. He looks like he leapt out of a comic book, just as Christopher Reeve and Lynda Carter had.

That isn't something I'd consciously thought of but I think you're right.

RDJ is great, but he doesn't look or act like any version of Tony Stark I was familiar with from comics; he developed a new version of the character around his own persona.

Yes indeed. John Slattery's Howard Stark is far closer to how I'd have imagined a real-life Tony. I do really love what RDJ has done with the character though.

Despite my love of comic books, the idea of super hero films mostly seemed like fools' gold. Sure, every so often there'd be a great film or two, but mostly they were awful; and even the good franchises
turned to dreck after a movie or two. The MCU seemed like a folly. I'm still incredulous that they pulled it off.

Yes. Not only is the idea incredibly ambitious but it's unprecedented for a series of super hero films to maintain - and perhaps even increase in - popularity.

After watching The Incredible Hulk I read that RDJ had commented it was a wise move for him to cameo since he'd inevitably end up having to promote that film as well as his own. And it seems there's a lot of planning ahead and trying to futureproof by introducing new franchises and allowing for contracts ending. And then there's the tie-ins to TV series. As a business model it's impressive.

With some minor adjustments, so far your rankings are fairly aligned with my own.

Oh great. I wonder if that will remain the case as we get into Phase Two.

I've not seen Thor

I'd recommend it. Despite its current relatively lowly fourth place in the list I loved it (I did initially place it just below Iron Man and for a time even considered placing it above). I'm not a particular fan of the character in the comics and was surprised just how good I found it. It has high drama, a few nice light moments and a terrific supporting cast. Of the films I've watched so far, it's the closest the MCU has come to the Christopher Reeve Superman films.

Personally I would rank The Incredible Hulk above Iron Man although it's a close thing as I really enjoyed both films.

It's nice to see some love for The Incredible Hulk.

I completely hear you about them being close. I find it very difficult to rank these films as so far I've enjoyed them all in very different ways.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

The Avengers (2012)



AKA Avengers Assemble (out of deference to Steed & Co)

​

What better way to end the year than by concluding Phase One for the very first time?

There are many external factors that can influence how a film is received and so it’s worth noting that this was viewed outside my usual early evening time-slot. With it being New Year and all, I decided to stay up until midnight and so I began watching the film after 9pm: a time when I’m usually thinking about hitting the sack (also of note, The Incredible Hulk was another exception. I watched that one as a rare matinee, which felt enjoyably indulgent).

Another significant external factor which hampered my enjoyment was a weird one. From around an hour into the film the colours kept changing onscreen, as though a different filter was used. Every twenty seconds there’d suddenly be a pink hue to the image which, after another fifteen seconds would snap back to the grey-blue tone. I don’t know why this happened. It started after I’d paused the film briefly, so I suspect it was something to do with the way it streamed. Whatever the case, it was like watching a very old TV set with a faulty tube and meant that I was edgy and not as immersed in the story as I’d have liked.

If I had any kind of expectation of this first team film, it was probably along fairly realistic (arguably cynical) lines. I suspected that action would be heightened, but probably at the expense of character. I felt that disagreements, schisms or miscommunication might hinder the team’s bonding, only for them to come good in the final battle. And I hoped for a sense of fun and event. Overall, I’d say these hopes and expectations were neatly met.


Even with a two and a half hour running time, the format simply doesn’t allow for the same depth of character as the solo films. However, I do feel this film does a really nice job of taking the baton of the established characters from previous films and running with style.

There’s enjoyment to be found in seeing the dynamics that come out of interactions. This happens in full-on fights such as the Thor/Iron Man/Cap face off midway through or the Black Widow/Hawkeye battle towards the end. But it’s also to be found in the banter and the occasional little barbs thrown around in the S.H.I.E.L.D. Helicarrier, such as Tony repeatedly referring to Steve as an “old man”. It seemed like a natural state of play for these alphas who are used to being the most powerful beings in the room.

And the chemistry all works. I actually forgot that many of these actors hadn’t appeared together before because it all felt natural and was fun to watch.

continued... ​

 

[Mel O'Drama]

The Avengers



continued

​

Some characters actually seemed to benefit from the more pithy writing style here. I didn’t find Black Widow particularly interesting in her Iron Man 2 debut, and yet she clicked with me here. Her very first scene - the interrogation in which she seemed the helpless captive but easily took out her captors and walked off once it suited her to do so - was the best introduction of any of the characters and one of my favourite scenes of the entire films as it summed up her capabilities and her M.O. in one short scene before she walked off continuing her phone call.

Hawkeye, of course, had more screen time than he was given in his Thor cameo. It seemed appropriate that in his first proper MCU appearance he’s in a position where he’s a kind of antagonist as that echoes his early comic appearances where he began in a more villainous role. Jeremy Renner looks nothing at all like the hunky-but-generically-blonde Clint Barton I know from the comics, but the MCU version’s craggy Daniel Craig/Sid James features bring a ruggedness that sets him apart and gives him a strong identity. At this point, I’m not craving more, but I’m certainly curious to see where this character goes.

I’m even less sure about Mark Ruffalo’s Bruce Banner. He doesn’t look or act like any previous iteration of Bruce Banner in comics or on film. His square features, beefier frame and thick black hair actually make him look more like the Hulk than Bruce. On one level it helps convince that both Bruce and Hulk are one and the same. But the two have always looked drastically physically different and so far I’m struggling to invest. I do wonder if debuting in this film with so much else going on didn’t serve him well, but then his chemistry with the rest of the cast seems good, and I suppose having three different Bruces in three consecutive Hulk films within a decade would have been even more damaging.

Loki was decent enough as the film’s primary antagonist. Yes, he’s still a bit arch for my liking and I was never in any doubt about the outcome against this team, but I enjoyed the continuation from Thor. Away from Asgard and interacting with Americans, the contemporary inflections to Tom Hiddleston’s delivery were far less distracting than before (in fact the only glaring moment for me was just before Hulk pounded him when he dropped the “T” in the word “not” mid-shout). Helping me warm to Hiddleston even more, I thought he had a bit of a Christopher Cazenove thing going on at times.

I really liked seeing various supporting players from some of the solo films such as Stellan Skarsgård. Pepper came across as more fun and likeable here than in her two more substantial roles in the Iron Man films. With all respect, less is perhaps more with Gwyneth Paltrow.

On the subject of supporting players, the most significant thing in this film for me was the death of Phil Coulson who, for me, has become a key part of the MCU. I’ve enjoyed the continuity his appearances have brought and as previously mentioned, I really like the different aspects we’ve seen to his character, from likeable and human to slightly sinister and threatening. It seems right that something so major as the Avengers’ decision to form as a team should come from his death. I’ll miss seeing him pop up in every film, but with him being such a key to the Avengers Initiative, I suppose his work is done.

 

[Mel O'Drama]

My Phase One rankings:

1. Captain America: The First Avenger
2. Iron Man
3. The Incredible Hulk
4. Thor
5. The Avengers
6. Iron Man 2

Placing The Avengers felt far easier for me than with previous films. Simply put, it had style, but I prefer the substance that came from the breathing room for character development in the Phase One solo films. All the same, I’m hopeful that future Avengers films might raise the stakes significantly and be exciting enough to get to the top end.

 

[Crimson]

Even with a two and a half hour running time, the format simply doesn’t allow for the depth of character as the solo films. However, I do feel this film does a really nice job of taking the baton of the established characters from previous films and running with style.

You are correct that the Hulk has never been portrayed as looking like Banner but, for me, this was one of those "Of course!" moments when the MCU made an improvement. I think it makes sense that the Hulk would look like a mutated version of Banner, rather than transforming into an entirely different being.

This Banner is different and less tortured than any previous version, but there's also some necessity here. With no additional solo Hulk films to come (I presume stating facts doesn't count as a spoiler!), there isn't room for that level of angst with Banner/Hulk's role in the MCU. I think Banner's evolved persona and function within the MCU are well handled, given the limitations of no longer having his own movies for full development.

As for the recasting, it helps that I wasn't particularly invested in Ed Norton's portrayal and, while I think TIH is a solid solo film, it ranks in the bottom half of the MCU as a whole for me.

Loki was decent enough as the film’s primary antagonist. Yes, he’s still a bit arch for my liking

I must have missed this in your THOR review, but I wasn't overly fond of Hiddleston's Loki at first either. He's grown on me through the years, but I was never wild about Loki in comics either.

Placing The Avengers felt far easier for me than with previous films. Simply put, it had style, but I prefer the substance that came from the breathing room for character development in the Phase One solo films.

And here we have our first major split in our rankings, as I regard THE AVENGERS as the pinnacle of Phase One. Excluding the sole sequel, IM2, I think the solo Phase One movies are all solid, enjoyable films. Even if the MCU had continued at that relatively unambitious approach, the MCU would rank as the best superhero franchise.

THE AVENGERS raised the stakes, but also, I found, altered how I would regard these movies going forward. I was of the belief that any movie, even if it fits into a series, needs to follow certain basics: a complete story, character development and emotional arcs. For instances, I've never been as enamored with EMPIRE STRIKES BACK as most STAR WARS fans because its not a complete story; one has to watch ROTJ for the conclusion (and that movie kind of stinks). The MCU is unlike anything ever attempted before, and I find its best to think of it as a giant TV series. I wouldn't ding episode 6 of a series for lacking character development, when that had been contained in the previous 5 episodes.

 

[DallasFanForever]

1. Captain America: The First Avenger
2. Iron Man
3. The Incredible Hulk
4. Thor
5. The Avengers
6. Iron Man 2

Totally agree with your #1. I’d probably move Thor up above the Hulk as hard as that is for me to admit. But this is all highly debatable of course. Nonetheless I’m really enjoying reading this thread and your reviews of these movies Mel!

 

[darkshadows38]

Robert Downey Jr. was more or less playing himself without the drugs, though he's i think always had an ego of sorts and he wasn't i don't think as bad as Tony Stark
he really upped the ante on the ego i think for the role but personality wise it to me sounds like he's playing an upgraded to the max version of himself and for the role it really works too