Alice (TV series)

[Soaplover]

I think the source material of the sitcom was why people hold this show so close to their heart, especially feminists back then. It was based on a great movie called 'Alice Doesn't live here anymore'... which was groundbreaking for the time.

However, I found the sitcom Alice to be a quirky situational comedy that wasn't groundbreaking nor was it horrible. It was a guilty pleasure with a formula that worked week to week.

Regarding the reason for Diane Ladd leaving, I can believe she wasn't happy with the character of Belle since she was created to be a Flo replacement without any sort of wiggle room to put her spin on the character. Had the backstage work environment been rewarding, I bet Diane Ladd might have stayed on beyond her 1 season stint.. but who knows for sure.

The final season of the show was interesting because it finally entered the 80s in terms of break dancing, bigger hair, and more 80s type of wardrobe/makeup when the women were not in their work uniforms. And Vera regained IQ points in the final season as she settled down as a newlywed, had a nice apartment, even had a successful stint moonlighting as DJ, and being a landlady to Lavin's other part time character that came in from time to time.

 

[Chris2]

Polly Holliday leaving really upset the balance of the show. It‘s too bad they didn’t have Diane Ladd play a character closer to the Flo she played in the movie. I think that would have worked better than the cartoonish Belle. And I couldn’t stand Jolene.

 

[ClassyCo]

Polly Holliday passed away on September 9, 2025.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/10/arts/television/polly-holiday-dead.html

 

[Chris2]

Polly Holliday was one of those great character actors who would just immerse themselves in a role - like Carol O’Connor, Jean Stapleton, Henry Winkler, etc.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

Polly Holliday passed away on September 9, 2025.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/10/arts/television/polly-holiday-dead.html

So sad to learn about Polly Holliday's passing.
She was my favorite performer on the show. It was never as good after she departed.
Ms Holliday was also Patricia Richardson's Mother on "Home Improvement"
The show missed a great opportunity by not utulizing her more, for at least a recurring role.

Ms. Holliday, Thank You for all the joy you gave the world for such a memorable character.

 

[ClassyCo]

So sad to learn about Polly Holliday's passing.
She was my favorite performer on the show. It was never as good after she departed.
Ms Holliday was also Patricia Richardson's Mother on "Home Improvement"
The show missed a great opportunity by not utulizing her more, for at least a recurring role.

Ms. Holliday, Thank You for all the joy you gave the world for such a memorable character.

Polly Holliday was the breakout star on ALICE, which is why she had her own short-lived spin-off. I guess we'll never really know how bad the friction was between Holliday and Linda Lavin, and how that may or may not have led to the former being pushed into her own show.

Holliday also played the nosey neighbor in MRS. DOUBTFIRE. You can see the version with her scenes still intact on Tubi -- well, that's if that version is still available there.

She also played Rose Nylund's (Betty White) blind sister, Lily, on a first season episode of THE GOLDEN GIRLS. The episode is called "Blind Ambitions", and it's honestly one of my least favorite episodes of the entire show. It's usually one I skip if I'm binging the show in some capacity.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

In the 1994 revival of the Broadway show "Picnic", Polly Holliday was cast as ... "Flo" !

Picnic (play) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ClassyCo]

I was thinking about ALICE yesterday. Well, more specifically, the off-camera that circled between Linda Lavin and her co-stars. Lavin, as it's been said, was not the easiest person to work with, especially considering she was "the star" of ALICE and held a certain control over the direction and "look" of the show. A jealous sprung from Lavin towards Polly Holliday, who became the breakout star (or fan favorite character) on the show. Her "Kiss my grits!" catchphrase always got big laughs, and she was arguably the funniest character on the show. According to which story you believe, Lavin advocated for Holliday to have her FLO spin-off (which lasted 29 episodes before being canned) and Holliday was more than willing to leave ALICE. Holliday's replacement, Diane Ladd, suffered a similar fate, and left ALICE abruptly with a hastily-written "goodbye" scene taking place away from Mel's Diner over the phone.

What Lavin didn't seem to "get" or care about was that Holliday drew more viewers to "her" show. In saying that, ALICE continued successfully for a few more years after both Holliday and Ladd had already left the show. If memory serves, Ladd's character, Belle, isn't even mentioned in the finale, and Holliday's Flo is shown briefly but not mentioned by name.

Such issues have plagued the productions of other shows over the years. Marla Gibbs apparently had issues with Jackee Harry being the breakout star of "227" and eventually succeeded in having her edged out of the show. Cybill Shepherd also showed her animosity towards co-star Christine Baranski on her '90s sitcom CYBILL for being the audience's "favorite" character.

But, on the flipside, there have been just many stars of shows that have encouraged their co-stars as fan favorites. Andy Griffith was all for Don Knotts being the "laugh getter" on THE ANDY GRIFFITH SHOW. Griffith tried to get Knotts to stay when went to leave in 1965, but supported his decision to take a once-in-a-lifetime deal to make films for Universal Pictures. THE ANDY GRIFFITH SHOW (which later morphed into MAYBERRY R.F.D.) ran for another five years without Knotts as a regular cast member, but the quality noticeably dropped -- which, to be fair, some of that could be contributed to the change to color and the change in the "tone" of the show, along with Knotts' absence as the comedic sidekick to Griffith's straight-man.

Likewise, Mary Tyler Moore wanted Valerie Harper to postpone her spin-off until MARY TYLER MOORE ended its run, but CBS saw their chance to expand the brand and created RHODA and then PHYLLIS while the parent show was still in production. Moore has been quite vocal about the qualities Harper added to "her" show and how she spoke against any spin-offs, but advocated in Harper's favor once the spin-off was greenlit by the network.

Hollywood, it's full of egos.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

I was thinking about ALICE yesterday. Well, more specifically, the off-camera that circled between Linda Lavin and her co-stars. Lavin, as it's been said, was not the easiest person to work with, especially considering she was "the star" of ALICE and held a certain control over the direction and "look" of the show. A jealous sprung from Lavin towards Polly Holliday, who became the breakout star (or fan favorite character) on the show. Her "Kiss my grits!" catchphrase always got big laughs, and she was arguably the funniest character on the show. According to which story you believe, Lavin advocated for Holliday to have her FLO spin-off (which lasted 29 episodes before being canned) and Holliday was more than willing to leave ALICE. Holliday's replacement, Diane Ladd, suffered a similar fate, and left ALICE abruptly with a hastily-written "goodbye" scene taking place away from Mel's Diner over the phone.

What Lavin didn't seem to "get" or care about was that Holliday drew more viewers to "her" show. In saying that, ALICE continued successfully for a few more years after both Holliday and Ladd had already left the show. If memory serves, Ladd's character, Belle, isn't even mentioned in the finale, and Holliday's Flo is shown briefly but not mentioned by name.

Such issues have plagued the productions of other shows over the years. Marla Gibbs apparently had issues with Jackee Harry being the breakout star of "227" and eventually succeeded in having her edged out of the show. Cybill Shepherd also showed her animosity towards co-star Christine Baranski on her '90s sitcom CYBILL for being the audience's "favorite" character.

But, on the flipside, there have been just many stars of shows that have encouraged their co-stars as fan favorites. Andy Griffith was all for Don Knotts being the "laugh getter" on THE ANDY GRIFFITH SHOW. Griffith tried to get Knotts to stay when went to leave in 1965, but supported his decision to take a once-in-a-lifetime deal to make films for Universal Pictures. THE ANDY GRIFFITH SHOW (which later morphed into MAYBERRY R.F.D.) ran for another five years without Knotts as a regular cast member, but the quality noticeably dropped -- which, to be fair, some of that could be contributed to the change to color and the change in the "tone" of the show, along with Knotts' absence as the comedic sidekick to Griffith's straight-man.

Likewise, Mary Tyler Moore wanted Valerie Harper to postpone her spin-off until MARY TYLER MOORE ended its run, but CBS saw their chance to expand the brand and created RHODA and then PHYLLIS while the parent show was still in production. Moore has been quite vocal about the qualities Harper added to "her" show and how she spoke against any spin-offs, but advocated in Harper's favor once the spin-off was greenlit by the network.

Hollywood, it's full of egos.

The show was fortunate to add Diane Ladd to the cast (Flo in the movie), after Polly Holliday's character departed

Linda Lavin should have been grateful to have two such outstanding actresses, Polly Holliday and Diane Ladd, in the cast

Mary Tyler Moore was quite wise to surround herself with such a talented cast.

On "The Honeymooners", Jackie Gleason had Art Carney, and the two of them were outstanding,
maybe the best duo ever IMHO

The Trouble Behind the Scenes of TV's 'Alice' Between Linda Lavin & Polly Holiday & Then Diane Ladd - NewsBreak

In 1976, the Alice TV sitcom premiered on CBS. The series was based on the 1974 feature film Alice Doesn’t Live Here Anymore, directed by Martin Scorsese a

www.newsbreak.com

 

[ClassyCo]

The show was fortunate to add Diane Ladd to the cast (Flo in the movie), after Polly Holliday's character departed

Linda Lavin should have been grateful to have two such outstanding actresses, Polly Holliday and Diane Ladd, in the cast

Yes, Ladd and Holliday were both talented and knew how to draw a laugh. Ladd, in particular, was quite a "koo" for the show to secure. Too bad Lavin messed that up.

I wonder... How was Lavin towards the third replacement, Celia Weston?

Mary Tyler Moore was quite wise to surround herself with such a talented cast.

Mary had a great, talented cast surrounding her. They worked together flawlessly. MARY TYLER MOORE is a great sitcom.

 

[Daniel Avery]

I'd like to think Celia Weston went into the role having seen (or been told by her agent about) the issues that caused such a role to be available on the show. When interviewing for a position in any workplace, it is a good idea to find out why there is an opening in the first place. If a place is seemingly "always hiring" then it's likely not a healthy workplace.

Weston likely figured that being a lesser-known actress at the time gave her an advantage since Lavin would not feel as threatened. If she approached the role of Jolene as more of a supporting role and allowed the longer-tenured actors (especially Lavin) to do the heavier lifting, she'd have greater job security/longevity. You also have to keep in mind that not every actor is out to upstage their co-stars and pull an All About Eve scenario. Weston may have been perfectly happy as a supporting character on a hit show and not out to develop a "breakout character".

 

[ClassyCo]

I'd like to think Celia Weston went into the role having seen (or been told by her agent about) the issues that caused such a role to be available on the show. When interviewing for a position in any workplace, it is a good idea to find out why there is an opening in the first place. If a place is seemingly "always hiring" then it's likely not a healthy workplace.

True. When a workplace as a significant turnover, especially for the same position (i.e. the "third waitress"), an interviewee would likely have their own suspicions going in for the job. As for me, I have been known to be skittish about asking such questions during interviews, but I've often wish I had done so once I actually get the job.

Weston likely figured that being a lesser-known actress at the time gave her an advantage since Lavin would not feel as threatened. If she approached the role of Jolene as more of a supporting role and allowed the longer-tenured actors (especially Lavin) to do the heavier lifting, she'd have greater job security/longevity. You also have to keep in mind that not every actor is out to upstage their co-stars and pull an All About Eve scenario. Weston may have been perfectly happy as a supporting character on a hit show and not out to develop a "breakout character".

Again, I believe you're right. Not all actors seek to upstage their fellow actors. Judging by the show itself, Weston does appear to be more comfortable being "in the background", where Holliday and Ladd were more comfortable at the forefront.

 

[Soaplover]

I think by the time Weston came on, Lavin was starting to tire of the role because there were some episodes in the last season or two where she had a reduced presence with Vera getting more focus and development.

The one positive I can say about the show was that the show actually matured Vera and she became less of a klutzy dingbat and more of a quirky and eccentric individual. She could add numbers in her head, she tapped down, and even had a long term relationship that resulted in marriage. By the final season, Vera had become almost a fully fleshed out character where we saw her at home and dressed up more in more trendy (for her) clothing.

Jolene was different than Flo or Belle.. she had more of a down home charm and warmth without the OTT and flamboyant tendencies that Holliday and Ladd bought to the show. Her character was more supporting, but effective support.

 

[Bobby Southworth]

So... growing up in a household with no cable until 1992, this was one of those shows I'd say we watched simply because it was on. Several other shows fit that bill. That said, I do enjoy some of it. Polly Holliday, Vic Tayback, and Diane Ladd were great. Linda was ok, but the singing...no thank you. Her singing the theme was fine, but all the singing in episodes. get over yourself. No disrespect intended, but I guess hearing how she was towards her co-stars doesn't help my opinion of the character. she was ok, like I said, being the straight man, that sometimes found herself in wacky situations, I could appreciate, but if the stuff about the ego is true.. She should have taken the attitude of Mary Tyler Moore, and embraced being part of an ensemble cast. Mary Tyler Moore show was also light-years beyond this, and quite frankly, while I appreciate the Rhoda years, it was always the antics with the WJYM crew that I enjoyed the most. It seemed to only get better each season.

Speaking of Happy Days, I do think Ron Howard was pretty humble about Winkler stealing the show, but I do remember hearing that at one point, the producers wanted to change the title to "Fonzie's Happy Days, and Ron did say he more or less threatened to leave if that happened. I don't blame him at all. In my opinion, Happy Day's was best when Fonzie was more in the background, and not some kind of superhero. The first two seasons were gold, and the third, the first where Fonzie was given the spotlight was still funny at times, but by the 6th season, it was just a different show..Chachi.. waa waa waa. 1970s hairstyles..outrageous plots. It actually seemed to become slightly more grounded after Ron left, strangely, and I don't mind seeing some of those episodes when given the chance.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

Polly Holliday, Vic Tayback, and Diane Ladd were great. Linda was ok, but the singing...no thank you. Her singing the theme was fine, but all the singing in episodes. get over yourself. No disrespect intended, but I guess hearing how she was towards her co-stars doesn't help my opinion of the character. she was ok, like I said, being the straight man, that sometimes found herself in wacky situations, I could appreciate, but if the stuff about the ego is true.. She should have taken the attitude of Mary Tyler Moore, and embraced being part of an ensemble cast. Mary Tyler Moore show was also light-years beyond this, and quite frankly, while I appreciate the Rhoda years, it was always the antics with the WJYM crew that I enjoyed the most. It seemed to only get better each season.

I am glad that you mentioned the singing. For someone who made the singing so much a part of the character, I didn't understand how the voice was anymore than slightly above average. I never cared for that part of the character

MTM was far better as the center of her show, because the supporting characters were written and performed as fully developed ones, not just plot devices.
PollyHolliday, Vic Tayback and Diane Ladd could have been utilized far better - all were skilled performers.

 

[Bobby Southworth]

I am glad that you mentioned the singing. For someone who made the singing so much a part of the character, I didn't understand how the voice was anymore than slightly above average. I never cared for that part of the character

MTM was far better as the center of her show, because the supporting characters were written and performed as fully developed ones, not just plot devices.
PollyHolliday, Vic Tayback and Diane Ladd could have been utilized far better - all were skilled performers.

The one scene that kept coming to my mind as I was typing about the singing was Alice and Mel's mom singing "Da Ya Ythink I'm Sexy'? LOL.

I mean, I get the fact she was supposed to be an aspiring singer, and we were probably bound to hear it sometimes, but.. it should have been written in a less over the top way when she did sing. They gave off vibes like she was one of the special guest stars(that just happened to be in Phoenix, stopping at Mel's diner, LOL) there to just put on a show when she did sing, at least that's how I'm remembering it. I'm sure it wasn't that way every single time, but if nothing else, there was just too much of it. She was a better singer than me, , and a lot of other people who think they can sing, but it just came across as a vehicle for her to show off, like she was taking advantage of the show. I could be wrong, maybe the producers actually pushed for it? I wasn't there, but I just know how it comes across.

Yes, as far as MTM, she didn't seem to have a problem with letting the other cast members shine, and so they did flesh out those characters better because of this. The writing was just simply stronger on MTM show as well, though, at least for me, but Mary seemed like a good team player, and that worked to the show's advantage. In defense of Linda Lavin, I don't think Alice was ever meant to be the kind of comedy that MTM show was in the first place, but the supposed reputation of Linda, and chasing off her funny supporting ladies just unfortunately somewhat taints an already not that funny character for me. May she rest in peace, though.. We all probably would have different ways of dealing with sudden fame like that, and some not so flattering. Maybe it was an insecurity issue on her part? I'm not saying it makes her actions right(if in fact true), and at the very least, she shouldn't have taken it out on the actresses. I wonder how they were towards her, though.

 

[ClassyCo]

For me, ALICE is one of those sitcoms that is entirely carried by its supporting cast.* I do not find Linda Lavin the least bit funny, nor do I necessarily even "like" her or her character of Alice Hyatt. Of the original cast, Vic Tayback, Beth Howland, and Polly Holliday are far funnier actors and characters. Yes, I understand that Alice was supposed to be the straight-woman to all the chaos, just like Mary on MARY TYLER MOORE. The sole difference is I like Mary, but I don't like Alice.

*Interestingly, my parents both called the show "Mel's Diner" (the name of the diner everybody worked at) instead of "Alice". They were both actually a little taken for a bit of a surprise when I told them the show was actually called ALICE. My dad even said, "Well, they should've called it 'Mel's Diner'."

 

[Soaplover]

Lavin was funny, but she wasn't lead character funny. The show Alice didn't really hone in on what made Lavin funny like it ended up doing for Vera, Mel, Flo, and Belle.

The show even figured out how to use Weston and that was making her more like a kid sister/town boy instead of the flashy overly sexual being that both Flo and Belle displayed.

For me, her guest turn on Rhoda was hilarious and her supporting roles as the pushy mother from hell were where Lavin could utilize her comic abilities in a more effective way.

 

[Crimson]

Interesting to me how ALICE and THREE'S COMPANY had parallels with their three "blondes" -- the first being a breakout, the second being a short term replacement, and the third being a pleasant placeholder. My unpopular opinion is in both cases the second was the best of the three.

 

[ClassyCo]

Interesting to me how ALICE and THREE'S COMPANY had parallels with their three "blondes" -- the first being a breakout, the second being a short term replacement, and the third being a pleasant placeholder. My unpopular opinion is in both cases the second was the best of the three.

So, you think Belle and Cindy were the best?

I don't know if I've heard anyone say that they prefer Cindy to Chrissy or Terri on THERE'S COMPANY.