Lucille Ball: The First Lady of Comedy

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Lucie also starred with Robert Klein in the original Broadway production of They're Playing Our Song, apparently to great success. (As an aside, the Australian production starred Jackie Weaver who has become an international star in her later years. She remarked in a TV interview at the time that as a short blonde she was the exact opposite of the Broadway star, who she didn't name.)
I do remember The Lucie Arnaz Show (it's on Tubi so I might revisit it sometime) but her high point on screen was probably co-starring in Neil Diamond's remake of The Jazz Singer, which isn't saying all that much. Further mooted Neil Diamond projects were also quietly forgotten.
 
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Jimmy Todd

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Here's a question: Would Lucille Ball have been as successful or as beloved if it weren't for Vivian Vance? I'm not denying Lucy's talent, but Vivian was so good and had such great chemistry with Lucy I'm wondering how much if a debt Lucy owes her. Personally, I think Vivian doesn't get as much credit as she deserves.
 
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Well, that's an interesting question. I suspect I could write an entire treatise on the matter, but I'll try to keep it succinct.

I think I'll go with "No". Lucy's legendary reputation rests entirely on I LOVE LUCY. She did some good things before, and some good things after, but it really all comes down to that show. Lucy herself was obviously key to that show's success, but she had kicked around Hollywood for nearly 20 years without hitting it big. It took the combination of Desi, the producers, writers, crew and cast to give her the foundation.

Fred and Ethel were vital to the show. The best evidence to that is the film THE LONG, LONG TRAILER. The movie is terrific -- hilarious and heartfelt -- but every time I watch it, I feel like something is missing. That something is the Mertzes. Would ILL have worked as well without the Mertzes, or even with other actors in those roles? Lucy's choices had been Gale Gordon and Bea Benedarat. Both were funny character actors, who Lucy had established relationships with. Gale tended to play his characters as pompous and bombastic, so I suspect he would have made Fred a lot less likeable than Bill Frawley's loveable curmudgeon. Bea worked well with Gracie and she was riotous on THE BEVERLY HILLBILLIES, but she was a broadly comedic character actress. I don't think she could have played Ethel with the same nuance as Vivian. Vivian was a good actress, who funneled her own resentments and insecurities into Ethel thereby making her more relatable. And that's the key to I LOVE LUCY. People tend to remember the big slapstick scenes -- the grape stomping, the drunk bits -- but there's like 10 of those out of 180 episodes. The show worked because of the personal interactions of the four main likeable, relatable characters.

After Vivian left THE LUCY SHOW, there were a string of temporary or wannabe replacements: Joan Blondell, Ann Sothern, Carol Burnett, Mary Jane Croft, Lucie Arnaz. All talented ladies, yet none of them could match Vivian's chemistry with Lucy nor was Lucy as funny with any of them.
 
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Crimson said:
People tend to remember the big slapstick scenes -- the grape stomping, the drunk bits -- but there's like 10 of those out of 180 episodes. The show worked because of the personal interactions of the four main likeable, relatable characters.
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This. I loved to hear the witty dialog and banter between those four great characters. And it was so sorely missed in Ball’s later series.
 
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Jimmy Todd said:
Here's a question: Would Lucille Ball have been as successful or as beloved if it weren't for Vivian Vance? I'm not denying Lucy's talent, but Vivian was so good and had such great chemistry with Lucy I'm wondering how much if a debt Lucy owes her. Personally, I think Vivian doesn't get as much credit as she deserves.
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Piggy-backing off of this question, I was thinking today about the women Lucy used on her TV shows.

Of course, we have Vivian Vance, the best second banana in the history of television. Vance was a perfect sidekick for Ball: attractive, capable, and a good actress and physical comedienne. It's no wonder that the two formed a strong off-screen friendship during the production of I LOVE LUCY in the 1950s. Lucy apparently wouldn't agree to do THE LUCY SHOW in 1962 for CBS until Vance agreed to come back as her co-star. Vance agreed, but only on the assurance that her character would be called "Viv" (she was still be called "Ethel" on the street at the time) and that he wardrobe would be more glamorous than what she had on the earlier show. Vance ended up staying with THE LUCY SHOW as Ball's full-time co-star until 1965, when she finally decided to withdrawal from the show as a regular. She appeared as a guest star in the show's final three seasons, and she ended up being practically a yearly guest star on Ball's following series called HERE'S LUCY.

Vivian Vance was Lucy's best TV sidekick. No one was better at countering Lucy's antics.

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The next one I always think of is Mary Jane Croft. A television actress, she worked on such sitcoms as THE ADVENTURES OF OZZIE AND HARRIET, I MARRIED JOAN, and OUR MISS BROOKS in the 1950s before meeting and pairing up with Lucy. Croft appeared on I LOVE LUCY as Lucy's old school snotty school chum Cynthia Harcourt and as the nosey Evelyn Bixby, who discovers Lucy's "baby" is actually a block of cheese while flying on an airplane. Croft was brought back as a semi-regular in the final season of I LOVE LUCY, where she played the likable new Connecticut neighbor Betty Ramsey.

Once Vivian Vance decided to leave THE LUCY SHOW in 1965, Lucy knew she wouldn't be able to go it without a regular gal pal by her side. She briefly toyed the idea of bringing in either Ann Sothern or Joan Blondell, but both of them were scrapped from consideration. Lucy then reached out to Croft (who had already appeared several times on THE LUCY SHOW as Audrey) to play Lucy's new girlfriend Mary Jane Lewis (which was the actress's real name due to her marriage to producer Elliott Lewis). Croft came into THE LUCY SHOW as a regular cast member shortly after the show's mid-series shift to California. She was a good counter to Lucy as well: daffy, still attractive, but yet not quite as assertive as Vance had been. She also appeared as a regular on HERE'S LUCY as basically the same Mary Jane character.

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Doris Singleton played Carolyn Appleby (originally Lillian) on I LOVE LUCY in the 1950s. She was a frenemy of Lucy Ricardo and Ethel Mertz. Perhaps the two most famous episodes involving Carolyn is the one where she loosing her glasses and Lucy forces a relationship with Van Johnson to appear popular with the Hollywood elite, and the episode where Carolyn and Lucy try to upstage one another concerning their kids' birthday parties. I don't believe Singleton ever appeared on THE LUCY SHOW, but she appeared on HERE'S LUCY two separate times. She appeared in the first episode of the latter series as Harry Carter's (Gale Gordon) secretary who Lucy replaces in the office, and later as Lucille Ball's personal secretary in an episode where Lucille Ball guest starred as "herself" to cross-promote her newest movie MAME (1974). It was one of the final HERE'S LUCY episodes filmed.

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I like how Lucy tried her best to keep the same cast surrounding her. She seemed to be the most reliant on Vivian Vance and for good reasons. Vance was her gal pal on I LOVE LUCY, one of the biggest hits TV's ever seen, and Lucy knew that she and Vivian worked well together. That's why she insisted she return to be with her on THE LUCY SHOW and the reason Lucy was more than happy that she agreed to continue as a yearly guest star on her shows.

Lucy reached back for Mary Jane Croft to step-in for Vance once she decided to move on with her life. Lucy seemed to remain faithful to Croft and kept her as a regular on THE LUCY SHOW and HERE'S LUCY. Apparently Lucy's relationship with Doris Singleton wasn't quite as strong, or that's what I'm guessing. It could all boil down to that Lucy's sidekick was played by Vance and Croft so well that there was simply no space for Singleton to be fitted in. Even when Singleton did appear on Lucy's shows it was never easy for me to believe Lucy and Doris (or her characters) were really "friends". They worked better when the "rivalry" between them was played up. The comedy drawn from that was priceless.

Even so, Lucy seems to have a reputation of underappreciating her female co-stars. She seemed to hold Gale Gordon in a high regard, but felt that the women around her (with the possible exception of Vance) were interchangeable and replaceable. Even if that's how Lucy worked, I still think the women she wanted and had around her throughout her TV career were wise and good choices. Each of them did some good work on her shows and don't get the recognition they need on our forums.​
 
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Crimson

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Caproni said:
I don't believe Singleton ever appeared on THE LUCY SHOW, but she appeared on HERE'S LUCY two separate times.
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She also appeared on two episodes of THE LUCY SHOW and four episodes of HERE'S LUCY, playing different characters. Doris was apparently meant to be a regular on HERE'S LUCY, set up as a rival and smarter secretary; but Lucy capriciously dropped the character to focus the show more on her relationship with her kids. There doesn't seem to have any reason that Lucy didn't utilize Doris more regularly; she apparently liked Doris enough to work with her over a nearly 35 year span. Doris had worked with Lucy as far back as on her radio show MY FAVORITE HUSBAND and as late as 1980 on a TV special. One of the things I dislike about THE LUCY SHOW (after about its second season) and HERE'S LUCY is the lack of consistency and continuity. Having Doris appear as a recurring character would have been an improvement. Mary Wickes suffered the same fate. She worked with Lucy a lot on of her 60s sitcoms, but always as different characters.

Mary Jane Croft fared better. She played recurring characters on all three of Lucy's hit shows and, I think, appeared with Lucy more often than any of her other third tier supporting character actors. Most likely this was due to Mary Jane being professional but more importantly unassuming. Vivian and Vivian's would-be replacements (Ann Sothern; Joan Blondell) expected to be Lucy's equal co-star, but Mary Jane was apparently a contented workaday actress who never expected the spotlight. This lack of ego probably made it easier for her to work with Lucy over a long period, but also meant she never got the focus she deserved. Out of all of the shows she did with Lucy, only one was really built around her; late in the run of HERE'S LUCY.

When LIFE WITH LUCY was floundering, there was talk of bringing Mary Jane, Mary Wickes or Doris onto the show to give Lucy a sidekick, but obviously that never happened.
 
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Gary Morton bristled when someone suggested bringing Mary Jane Croft onto “Life with Lucy”. “I don’t want this show to look like a rerun!” LOL - what a dope. It was already a rerun of a rerun.

I would have tuned in just to see Mary Jane again. She always made me laugh with that silly voice of hers.
 
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Mary Jane Croft was content at being on the sidelines in Lucy's shows, and I'm sure that made Lucy very comfortable having her around. Mary Jane wasn't there pouting or wishing she had opening credits billing or more screen time. She was happy with what she got.

The only episode of any of Lucy's shows to center on Mary Jane was "Mary Jane's Boyfriend", which just happened to be one of the very last HERE'S LUCY episodes to air in 1974.

(An interesting tidbit about the "Mary Jane's Boyfriend" episode. The man that plays Jack, Mary Jane's beau, was John Gabriel. He was the original choice to play the Professor on GILLIGAN'S ISLAND before being shafted for Russell Johnson.)
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I wish Mary Jane would've gotten more exposure on Lucy's shows.​

Crimson said:
She also appeared on two episodes of THE LUCY SHOW and four episodes of HERE'S LUCY, playing different characters.
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I knew my memory was fuzzy. I couldn't remember how many times she was on HERE'S LUCY, but I didn't think she played on THE LUCY SHOW at all. I stand corrected.​
Crimson said:
When LIFE WITH LUCY was floundering, there was talk of bringing Mary Jane, Mary Wickes or Doris onto the show to give Lucy a sidekick, but obviously that never happened.
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With Vivian gone, it would've been nice to see Mary Jane come back on LIFE WITH LUCY. Doris would've been nice too.
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Crimson said:
After Vivian left THE LUCY SHOW, there were a string of temporary or wannabe replacements: Joan Blondell, Ann Sothern, Carol Burnett, Mary Jane Croft, Lucie Arnaz. All talented ladies, yet none of them could match Vivian's chemistry with Lucy nor was Lucy as funny with any of them.
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Poor Joan Blondell seemed so out of her element when she was on THE LUCY SHOW for two episodes. The show was at the top of the ratings when Blondell as brought in as a potential replacement for Vivian Vance.

Blondell hated her time on the show. After Lucy loudly criticized her performance in front of the cast, crew, and live audience, Blondell tossed in the towel. She never worked with Lucy again. And who could blame her? I'm sure Joan gave everything she could to Lucy in hopes of being good on her show... but Lucy wasn't satisfied.​

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I thought Carol Burnett was funny when she did THE LUCY SHOW (and later HERE'S LUCY as well), but her being a roommate or more full-time cast member wouldn't have worked. Lucy was "the star" of her sitcoms, and Carol deserved her own show. Thank goodness she got THE CAROL BURNETT SHOW, otherwise her talents would've been squandered on Lucy's shows. Carol needed more room to stretch her talents.​

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Lucy called Ann Sothern "the best comedienne in the business" and the two women had a long, healthy friendship. Ann did several episodes (like seven or so) of THE LUCY SHOW as Lucy Carmichael's friend The Countess, a wealthy woman with a lot of "royal debts". The episodes they did together were quite funny and I would've liked had Ann did more shows.

But Ann wanted -- and deserved -- top billing with Lucy to be her full-time co-star. That was unacceptable to Lucy and Ann was booted out. I wonder how close they remained after the fact. Ann never again appeared on THE LUCY SHOW or even HERE'S LUCY.​

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I couldn’t stand Ann Sothern’s character on the show. Totally unfunny.

The fact is, the Lucy style of comedy didn’t really age well after the US culture changed in the mid 60s. They would have been better off throwing in the towel after the first three seasons, when Vivian Vance left.
 
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Chris2 said:
I couldn’t stand Ann Sothern’s character on the show. Totally unfunny.
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I think Lucy and Ann had great chemistry and comradery together, but I don't disagree that she got stuck with a dumb character. The Countess points out just how separated from any semblance of reality Lucy's show had become by the mid-60s. I LOVE LUCY, for all of its ridiculous comedy, was a show based on believable characters and situations: thwarted ambitions, complicated relationships, and up-and-down friendships. Anyone, on some level, can relate to those things. How many people relate to having a broke Countess show up on their doorstep? Maybe I'm in the minority, but that's never happened to me.
 
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Chris2 said:
I couldn’t stand Ann Sothern’s character on the show. Totally unfunny.

The fact is, the Lucy style of comedy didn’t really age well after the US culture changed in the mid 60s. They would have been better off throwing in the towel after the first three seasons, when Vivian Vance left.
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This is very interesting. What do you mean by Lucy's style of comedy as it relates to 1960s culture?
 
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There was an innocence to Lucy’s sitcoms - the misunderstandings, the conservative values (I’m not talking politics - more generational), the “let’s put on a show!” plots - that just didn’t jibe with what was going on in the US at the time. After President Kennedy was assassinated, America lost its innocence. Vietnam, protests, the civil rights movement, counter culture. And there was Lucy, pretending she was 30 years old, getting into silly scrapes she was too old for, and dying for a chance to meet Bob Cummings or whoever the celebrity du jour was.
 
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Chris2 said:
There was an innocence to Lucy’s sitcoms - the misunderstandings, the conservative values (I’m not talking politics - more generational), the “let’s put on a show!” plots - that just didn’t jibe with what was going on in the US at the time. After President Kennedy was assassinated, America lost its innocence. Vietnam, protests, the civil rights movement, counter culture. And there was Lucy, pretending she was 30 years old, getting into silly scrapes she was too old for, and dying for a chance to meet Bob Cummings or whoever the celebrity du jour was.
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Indeed. Also, the selection of guest stars was decidedly passe and targeted to Lucille's generation rather than anyone younger at the time - Mel Torme! Wayne Newton! The aforementioned Bob Cummings! Ginger Rogers and Joan Crawford! When they tried to "get hip", only has-been or on-the-way-to-has-been stars were interested. Ann Margaret! Sigh. Mind you, American TV didn't ever adequately capture the new generation well, as most producers were keeping to conservative assessments (as if the "generation gap" could be solved with a hug and a chuckle rather than any substantive discussion of political frameworks and world views.) "These kids today! Oh how mixed up they are!"
 
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Chris2 said:
There was an innocence to Lucy’s sitcoms - the misunderstandings, the conservative values (I’m not talking politics - more generational), the “let’s put on a show!” plots - that just didn’t jibe with what was going on in the US at the time. After President Kennedy was assassinated, America lost its innocence. Vietnam, protests, the civil rights movement, counter culture. And there was Lucy, pretending she was 30 years old, getting into silly scrapes she was too old for, and dying for a chance to meet Bob Cummings or whoever the celebrity du jour was.
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American TV didn't really catch up with the era until the double punch of Mary & Archie; from that point on, Lucy's sitcom was indeed a musty relic. Prior to the TV revolution of 1970, I don't think Lucy's show was any more touch than the rest of what was being aired. Even shows that adopted the trappings of the late 60s did so only superficially, managing to be both exploitive and trivializing of the Counter Culture.

Lucy's real undoing in the 60s was poor quality. To see what her show should have been in the 60s, one need look no further than THE DICK VAN DYKE SHOW. Not only is it the best sitcom of its era, it's the true successor to I LOVE LUCY (just as Laurie Petrie was the spiritual heir of Lucy Ricardo, more than either Mrs. Carmichael or Mrs. Carter). The first season of THE LUCY SHOW was onto something, but it got progressively worse each passing year.
 
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