"Valley of the Dolls" vs "Mommie Dearest" vs "Dynasty"

[Snarky Oracle!]

Btw, think of me as your editor, not your enemy. I'm here to protect you.

Yeah, right. You just roll over and refuse to cuddle.

... And about that ginger.

It's not possible to make what happened in season 9 retroactively relevant for season 5 and make those episodes look better than they really were.

But yes, there is -- there's always a way!

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Patty Duke was a terrific actress, but was she the key casting problem which made VALLEY OF THE DOLLS so problematic?

It was never going to be "good" movie, but, aside from her total lack of believability of Duke as a singing-dancing sensation (she doesn't sing and is stiff as a board), all her scenes have her screaming unrelentingly. (Her choice, or the lousy director's?)

A lot of DOLLS docs have been popping up on my YT feed, for whatever reason, and they're all more entertaining than the movie itself.

 

[Ked]

Patty Duke was a terrific actress, but was she the key casting problem which made VALLEY OF THE DOLLS so problematic?

It was never going to be "good" movie, but, aside from her total lack of believability of Duke as a singing-dancing sensation (she doesn't sing and is stiff as a board), all her scenes have her screaming unrelentingly. (Her choice, or the lousy director's?)

A lot of DOLLS docs have been popping up on my YT feed, for whatever reason, and they're all more entertaining than the movie itself.

From a documentary I watched, it looked like it was all the director's fault. He just didn't seem like he was interested at all in how the movie was made, leaving the three leads to flounder.

 

[Willie Oleson]

She sang


But, yeah, ideally they should have convinced Helen Shapiro to play the part of Neely. That would have been a real shocker which is what this film needed to be (and miserably failed at).

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

She sang
View attachment 59103View attachment 59104View attachment 59105

But, yeah, ideally they should have convinced Helen Shapiro to play the part of Neely. That would have been a real shocker which is what this film needed to be (and miserably failed at).

I should have said "she doesn't sing well enough to play that kind of star."

Some people prefer Duke's LP singing to her voice-over double in the movie (I haven't heard it, and it's probably true) but she's supposed to be a Streisandian phenomenon in the script,

Duke might even rhumba, too, but we never saw a convincing manifestation expression of that in DOLLS.

From a documentary I watched, it looked like it was all the director's fault. He just didn't seem like he was interested at all in how the movie was made, leaving the three leads to flounder.

He was apparently mean to Sharon Tate, too. I'm guessing he knew Manson.

 

[Willie Oleson]

Duke might even rhumba, too, but we never saw a convincing manifestation expression of that in DOLLS.

Let's say that Barbara Parkins did it better in Peyton Place.

 

[Ked]

He was apparently mean to Sharon Tate, too. I'm guessing he knew Manson.

Anyone who ever knew Sharon Tate always goes on about how gentle and sweet and "good" she was, and the fact that she was willing to die so that her unborn child could live is a huge testament to her character. So anyone who could possibly be mean to her is bad in my book.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Anyone who ever knew Sharon Tate always goes on about how gentle and sweet and "good" she was, and the fact that she was willing to die so that her unborn child could live is a huge testament to her character. So anyone who could possibly be mean to her is bad in my book.

People are often meaner to nice folks because they think they can get away with it, and that the victim will feel it more than somebody else.

Of course, four other people were slaughtered on Cielo Drive that night, so the killers probably weren't being terribly discriminating.

Polanski wasn't terribly nice to Sharon either, objectifying and demeaning her. (She was probably too old for him). Joanna Pettet, a buddy of Sharon's who had to be hospitalized after she heard about the murders, hated Roman Polanski and called him "evil".

Good director though; those Leos always are.

 

[Ked]

Something interesting I couldn't help but notice is how Sharon Tate became friends with two Peyton Place stars: Mia Farrow and Barbara Parkins. Yet, despite the latter two being former costars, I never heard about the three women ever interacting at once.

 

[Toni]

Something interesting I couldn't help but notice is how Sharon Tate became friends with two Peyton Place stars: Mia Farrow and Barbara Parkins. Yet, despite the latter two being former costars, I never heard about the three women ever interacting at once.

Mia only acts with people she´s adopted. And suits everybody else. Look what she had to say about Joannie Crawford, the nerve!
https://people.com/mia-farrow-says-joan-crawford-was-scary-in-person-11750028

"As Escola shared their admiration for Crawford’s film Our Dancing Daughters, the 80-year-old didn’t hold back. “She’s scary,” Farrow revealed. “And she was scary in person as well.” (Look who´s talking!)

​

During her teenage years, while filming the TV version of Peyton Place on the Fox lot in California, the actress described a strange encounter with Crawford.
At the time, the Academy Award winner – nearly four decades Farrow’s senior – was married to Alfred Steele, the then-president of Pepsi-Cola.
According to Farrow, she began behaving in ways that struck the young actress as deeply odd – leaving a lasting impression that clearly lingers to this day.
“For whatever reason, she started sending a whole refrigerator of Pepsi Cola for my trailer ’cause I was in a TV series called Peyton Place,” she explained.
“I don’t particularly like Pepsi Cola, but a lot of Pepsi Cola kept coming to my trailer, more than anyone would ever want,” Farrow added. “And then she came over to see me, and I got a strange vibe from her.”

So, PEPSI = SAPPHIC LOVE​

Away from the set, Farrow also had a few weird moments with the legendary actress in New York at her mother, Maureen O'Sullivan’s, house.
“I hung up people’s coats for my mom when they came into the house. And I hung her coat and out falls a flask of alcohol,” she recalls. “She grabbed it like that, and she put it in her handbag. She drank quite a lot.”

Yes, but she smoked too!​

Following that, 17-year-old Farrow was invited to Crawford’s apartment in the city. Thinking it was a party, she agreed to go. “But I arrived, and I was the only one there,” she told Escola.
Everything in the apartment was green, bathed in low, moody lighting. There were no other guests.

Again, PEPSI = SAPPHIC LOVE
​

Feeling extremely uncomfortable, young Farrow made up an on-the-spot excuse to leave. “I just made up a lie that I wasn’t feeling very well and I didn’t want to give her any diseases,” she shared. “I think I said the word ‘diseases’ as I walked out of the room. I was scared of Ms. Crawford.”

I think Michelle Phillips was part of their (Polanski´s) circle. She even talked about it on a video.

"Oh sure, little thing Mia thought she was the Queen of England!"
​

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Mia only acts with people she´s adopted. And suits everybody else. Look what she had to say about Joannie Crawford, the nerve!
https://people.com/mia-farrow-says-joan-crawford-was-scary-in-person-11750028

"As Escola shared their admiration for Crawford’s film Our Dancing Daughters, the 80-year-old didn’t hold back. “She’s scary,” Farrow revealed. “And she was scary in person as well.” (Look who´s talking!)

View attachment 59117
​

During her teenage years, while filming the TV version of Peyton Place on the Fox lot in California, the actress described a strange encounter with Crawford.
At the time, the Academy Award winner – nearly four decades Farrow’s senior – was married to Alfred Steele, the then-president of Pepsi-Cola.
According to Farrow, she began behaving in ways that struck the young actress as deeply odd – leaving a lasting impression that clearly lingers to this day.
“For whatever reason, she started sending a whole refrigerator of Pepsi Cola for my trailer ’cause I was in a TV series called Peyton Place,” she explained.
“I don’t particularly like Pepsi Cola, but a lot of Pepsi Cola kept coming to my trailer, more than anyone would ever want,” Farrow added. “And then she came over to see me, and I got a strange vibe from her.”

View attachment 59118
So, PEPSI = SAPPHIC LOVE​

Away from the set, Farrow also had a few weird moments with the legendary actress in New York at her mother, Maureen O'Sullivan’s, house.
“I hung up people’s coats for my mom when they came into the house. And I hung her coat and out falls a flask of alcohol,” she recalls. “She grabbed it like that, and she put it in her handbag. She drank quite a lot.”

View attachment 59119
Yes, but she smoked too!​

Following that, 17-year-old Farrow was invited to Crawford’s apartment in the city. Thinking it was a party, she agreed to go. “But I arrived, and I was the only one there,” she told Escola.
Everything in the apartment was green, bathed in low, moody lighting. There were no other guests.

View attachment 59120
Again, PEPSI = SAPPHIC LOVE
​

Feeling extremely uncomfortable, young Farrow made up an on-the-spot excuse to leave. “I just made up a lie that I wasn’t feeling very well and I didn’t want to give her any diseases,” she shared. “I think I said the word ‘diseases’ as I walked out of the room. I was scared of Ms. Crawford.”

I think Michelle Phillips was part of their (Polanski´s) circle. She even talked about it on a video.

View attachment 59121
"Oh sure, little thing Mia thought she was the Queen of England!"
​

Why can't sociopaths just get along??

 

[Ked]

Mia only acts with people she´s adopted. And suits everybody else. Look what she had to say about Joannie Crawford, the nerve!
https://people.com/mia-farrow-says-joan-crawford-was-scary-in-person-11750028

"As Escola shared their admiration for Crawford’s film Our Dancing Daughters, the 80-year-old didn’t hold back. “She’s scary,” Farrow revealed. “And she was scary in person as well.” (Look who´s talking!)

View attachment 59117
​

During her teenage years, while filming the TV version of Peyton Place on the Fox lot in California, the actress described a strange encounter with Crawford.
At the time, the Academy Award winner – nearly four decades Farrow’s senior – was married to Alfred Steele, the then-president of Pepsi-Cola.
According to Farrow, she began behaving in ways that struck the young actress as deeply odd – leaving a lasting impression that clearly lingers to this day.
“For whatever reason, she started sending a whole refrigerator of Pepsi Cola for my trailer ’cause I was in a TV series called Peyton Place,” she explained.
“I don’t particularly like Pepsi Cola, but a lot of Pepsi Cola kept coming to my trailer, more than anyone would ever want,” Farrow added. “And then she came over to see me, and I got a strange vibe from her.”

View attachment 59118
So, PEPSI = SAPPHIC LOVE​

Away from the set, Farrow also had a few weird moments with the legendary actress in New York at her mother, Maureen O'Sullivan’s, house.
“I hung up people’s coats for my mom when they came into the house. And I hung her coat and out falls a flask of alcohol,” she recalls. “She grabbed it like that, and she put it in her handbag. She drank quite a lot.”

View attachment 59119
Yes, but she smoked too!​

Following that, 17-year-old Farrow was invited to Crawford’s apartment in the city. Thinking it was a party, she agreed to go. “But I arrived, and I was the only one there,” she told Escola.
Everything in the apartment was green, bathed in low, moody lighting. There were no other guests.

View attachment 59120
Again, PEPSI = SAPPHIC LOVE
​

Feeling extremely uncomfortable, young Farrow made up an on-the-spot excuse to leave. “I just made up a lie that I wasn’t feeling very well and I didn’t want to give her any diseases,” she shared. “I think I said the word ‘diseases’ as I walked out of the room. I was scared of Ms. Crawford.”

I think Michelle Phillips was part of their (Polanski´s) circle. She even talked about it on a video.

View attachment 59121
"Oh sure, little thing Mia thought she was the Queen of England!"
​

Meh, Joan did give off some intimidating vibes (it didn't help that Disney based The Evil Queen's design off of her, lol). Plus, given how Mia was an inexperienced teenager then, I can see her being confused and put off by some of Joan's actions. Heck, when I was a lot younger, I was *very* paranoid about what certain people would ask me, but that was more due to the fact that I was socially awkward and had such little exposure to what real life people actually talked about. Plus, when someone much older than you invites you to their apartment... alone... and you're already put off by them... yeah, I can't really blame Ms. Farrow for walking out.

Heh, but this does remind me of something that fellow PEYTON PLACE star Ed Nelson said of Mia: "She was an uncommon person. She was either going to make it big as a star... or commit suicide." Woof.

Bit of a side note: I often thought about what it would have been like if Joan Crawford had Guest Starred on PEYTON PLACE. I have the perfect character in mind for her: Laura Brooks, the sister of Leslie Harrington. The character was in the first few episodes of Season 1 before getting put on a bus (or plane or whatever), but they very easily could have brought her back with Joan playing her - and have her re-start her attempts at seducing Dr. Rossi. Laura and Leslie could easily have their own secrets hidden away; maybe one or both them accidentally murdered their parents; or Laura once had an affair with another man and either had an abortion (only hinted at, since this was 1960s television) or gave it up for adoption. Laura also could have tried seducing Steven Cord, and even had a catfight with Hannah Cord or Connie MacKenzie or Betty Anderson!

Why can't sociopaths just get along??

Because that's what makes them sociopaths; they have difficulty forming attachments and often have unstable personal lives. Or so I've read.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Meh, Joan did give off some intimidating vibes (it didn't help that Disney based The Evil Queen's design off of her, lol). Plus, given how Mia was an inexperienced teenager then, I can see her being confused and put off by some of Joan's actions. Heck, when I was a lot younger, I was *very* paranoid about what certain people would ask me, but that was more due to the fact that I was socially awkward and had such little exposure to what real life people actually talked about. Plus, when someone much older than you invites you to their apartment... alone... and you're already put off by them... yeah, I can't really blame Ms. Farrow for walking out.

Director Vincent Sherman, who had worked with -- and had affairs with -- both Joan Crawford and Bette Davis, said that Joan was much more aggressive (including sexually) than Bette.

And you can see it: Bette was the more insecure, while Joan buried her insecurities and over-compensated for them. And perhaps that's why people said Joan had sex with everybody while Bette didn't have sex with anybody... Bette herself asserted that Crawford "has had sex with every male star at MGM except Lassie" (Davis never said anything about the women, but believed Crawford had the hots for her. Joan, who was credited as being "very honest" about her own sex life, was even quoted as saying to a friend, "I'd give her a poke" about Bette Davis. Daughter Dearest Christina Crawford said, "Yeah, she had lesbian proclivities" about her adoptive mother).

Even child star Jackie Cooper said Joan bedded him at age 15. And when he went back for more, she'd lost interest.

So, yeah, Mia Farrow probably had reason to be concerned.

But, unlike Bette Davis, who'd had a prim New England upbringing and lost her virginity at age 26 when she married, Joan Crawford had a horrendous, impoverished upbringing in Texas where she was abused and exploited, and had a sexual relationship with her step-father at age 11 (which she felt was no big deal). So that childhood history likely motivated Joan to be more assertive in numerous ways, including careerwise and "romantically". (And chronic molestation can lead people to become more promiscuous as an adult than they might otherwise be).

That said, Mia is no paragon of honesty (nor parenthood) and, in her own way, as creepy as Joan Crawford. Farrow always struck me as a Manson Family reject anyway -- the half-sister of Susan Atkins.

 

[Ked]

Director Vincent Sherman, who had worked with -- and had affairs with -- both Joan Crawford and Bette Davis, said that Joan was much more aggressive (including sexually) than Bette.

And you can see it: Bette was the more insecure, while Joan buried her insecurities and over-compensated for them. And perhaps that's why people said Joan had sex with everybody while Bette didn't have sex with anybody... Bette herself asserted that Crawford "has had sex with every male star at MGM except Lassie" (Davis never said anything about the women, but believed Crawford had the hots for her. Joan, who was credited as being "very honest" about her own sex life, was even quoted as saying to a friend, "I'd give her a poke" about Bette Davis. Daughter Dearest Christina Crawford said, "Yeah, she had lesbian proclivities" about her adoptive mother).

Even child star Jackie Cooper said Joan bedded him at age 15. And when he went back for more, she'd lost interest.

So, yeah, Mia Farrow probably had reason to be concerned.

But, unlike Bette Davis, who'd had a prim New England upbringing and lost her virginity at age 26 when she married, Joan Crawford had a horrendous, impoverished upbringing in Texas where she was abused and exploited, and had a sexual relationship with her step-father at age 11 (which she felt was no big deal). So that childhood history likely motivated Joan to be more assertive in numerous ways, including careerwise and "romantically". (And chronic molestation can lead people to become more promiscuous as an adult than they might otherwise be).

Yeah, a lot of this stuff was covered in "Feud", though I've also read how people saw that show as a wasted opportunity for doing a serious biopic or something about the two actresses. That *would* have been interesting, but, it is what it is. Anyway, it really is sad (and horrifying) the kind of upbringing Joan had; a screwed up childhood really would result in a screwed up adulthood. It doesn't excuse it, but it certainly makes it more understandable.

That said, Mia is no paragon of honesty (nor parenthood) and, in her own way, as creepy as Joan Crawford. Farrow always struck me as a Manson Family reject anyway -- the half-sister of Susan Atkins.

Yeah, I haven't kept up with Mia Farrow's career or personal life aside from a few bits, and of the little I've seen and heard, she's never been described as an upstanding individual.

 

[Willie Oleson]

Feeling extremely uncomfortable, young Farrow made up an on-the-spot excuse to leave. “I just made up a lie that I wasn’t feeling very well and I didn’t want to give her any diseases,” she shared. “I think I said the word ‘diseases’ as I walked out of the room

So funny. She was in a Woody Allen film before she played in a Woody Allen film.

When Allison MacKenzie leaves Peyton Place in a state of delirium, was that because she had overdosed on Pepsi Cola?
Did Joan Crawford RUIN it for us?

 

[Ked]

When Allison MacKenzie leaves Peyton Place in a state of delirium, was that because she had overdosed on Pepsi Cola?
Did Joan Crawford RUIN it for us?

Nah, all the blame is on Frank Sinatra. He was the one who made it possible for Mia to leave the show, resulting in the downward spiral it took. Sure, PEYTON PLACE still had it's good moments afterwards, but with the loss of its soulful protagnonist, it lost its center. After Allison, Rodney spiraled listlessly and dragged Betty down with him; Elliot & Connie lost their own way and ended up leaving unceremoniously because the writers no longer knew what to do with them. And when the show started off so strong with Allison, Connie and Elliot all having such meaty storylines only to just fizzle out... They should have simply recasted Allison with Leigh Taylor-Young and had Allison finally get together with Rodney. Leigh and Ryan O'Neal were going to get married and have a baby later on anyway, it would have worked out.

 

[Willie Oleson]

He was the one who made it possible for Mia to leave the show, resulting in the downward spiral it took

But part of that downward spiral (if there was one) is not because Allison left but because the writers refused to let her go, and so we got this big storyline constantly reminding us that she wasn't there anymore.
It's similar to not allowing Pam to die in Dallas despite the fact that Victoria Principal would not return, and it was only in NuDallas that they made that part interesting again.

but with the loss of its soulful protagnonist, it lost its center.

I find Rodney equally soulful. Betty was different but not a lesser protagonist imo.
And some fans might argue that it's always been Dr. Rossi's story.

Elliot & Connie lost their own way and ended up leaving unceremoniously

Peyton Place characters often left with feelings of disappointment or bitterness, in the case of Connie & Elliot because they find out it wasn't Allison's baby after all.
True, it's not a happy ending (only Jill & Joe, of all characters, were heading for a brighter future) but unhappy endings also have the capability to linger on. And that's why I don't consider it "unceremoniously".

And when the show started off so strong with Allison, Connie and Elliot all having such meaty storylines only to just fizzle out...

Hold on a minute. It started with Connie and Dr. Rossi, that was the potential romance I was rooting for. The return of Elliot Carson torpedoed that blossoming romance. I'm not sure if I've ever forgiven him even though I liked Elliot for himself.

They should have simply recasted Allison with Leigh Taylor-Young and had Allison finally get together with Rodney.

Even if Mia Farrow had been in the series till the very end, I just can't see her riding off into the sunset with a partner. It would probably be something bittersweet, like the ending of The Purple Rose Of Cairo (replace the cinema with the Peyton Place Clarion).
Perhaps she could have gone to New York, alone, to start a successful career.
I think the romantic connection between Rodney and Betty was stronger (as opposed to the soulful friendship between Rodney and Allison) despite the fact that Rodney and Betty's relationship always had the tendency to be dysfunctional. But that's the price you pay for being in a soap.

I love the last instalment with all the new characters therefore I've never experienced any decline.

As you already know, my ideal fanfic ending would be the arrival of the man in the framed photograph who was supposed to represent Allison's "real" father.
And for a long time he really had been her father. He passes Allison on the platfrom when she's about to take the train to New York. She stops, turns around...fade to black.