Russia begins the invasion

[Frank Underwood]

As an American, I'm tired of my government being a puppet of the military industrial complex.

A US President can't force Ukraine to stop fighting, but they can stop contributing to the slaughter. US involvement in this war isn't about security guarantees that were made. That fact should be obvious by the number of causalities that have occurred (and continue to occur.) People dying by the hundreds of thousands (possibly a million) isn't my idea of "security." It's amazing how people haven't learned the lesson of unwinnable, endless wars after Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. War is a grotesque, lucrative racket.

 

[Angela Channing]

So let's just continue killing all of the Ukranians until the very last one is dead. So long as the American military contractors continue raping the U.S. Treasury of working class tax dollars and, that's apparently all that matters.

Russia was never going to lose this war. So let's just let everybody in Ukraine die?? For corporate profits??

I don't give a crap about US military contractors and conspiracy theories concerning them, I care about ordinary Ukrainians having the right to live their lives in freedom and democracy.

As an American, I'm tired of my government being a puppet of the military industrial complex.

Your government isn't a puppet of the military industrial complex, it's a puppet of Putin.

A US President can't force Ukraine to stop fighting, but they can stop contributing to the slaughter and destruction. It's gone past security guarantees that were promised to Ukraine at this point. It's amazing how people haven't learned the lesson of unwinnable, endless wars by now after Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. War is a grotesque, lucrative racket.

If Hitler was still killing Jews, travellers and LGBT people would you be saying the USA shouldn't be doing anything to stop him?

 

[Frank Underwood]

Ask Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Gaza, etc. if the US is a puppet of the military industrial complex or Putin. Conspiracy theory, my ass. US politicians and pundits admitted the war is good for the US defense industry. The US doesn't care about Ukraine's "freedom and democracy," which is why they staged a coup there in 2014.

I understand why Hitler needed to be stopped, but what's the plan to stop Putin? The US was in WW2 for a little under 4 years. Somehow, I have a feeling most US politicians want the Ukraine War to be more like the 20 + year commitments in Iraq and Afghanistan so they can keep supplying them with weapons. I don't see Putin being defeated decisively, which is why I'd prefer the war end through diplomatic negotiations. Sadly, the West is beholden to the military industrial complex, and Ukraine is paying the price.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

I don't give a crap about US military contractors and conspiracy theories concerning them, I care about ordinary Ukrainians having the right to live their lives in freedom and democracy.

You can "not give a crap about US military contractors" all you choose, but that's who's running the show -- as always.

Should all Ukranians die on a matter of principle, in a war Russia was never going to lose?

 

[Laurie!]

If it's all about the "military industrial complex", why aren't they sending U.S. troops to defend Ukraine? Seems to me that would require those industrial gears to start churning out new, expensive equipment to protect Americans. Instead, they're giving Ukraine soon to expire arsenals to replenish American stockpiles....saving the U.S. disposal fees and allowing Russia to have the upper hand. That doesn't seem very profitable to me. More like, breaking even.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

If it's all about the "military industrial complex", why aren't they sending U.S. troops to defend Ukraine? Seems to me that would require those industrial gears to start churning out new, expensive equipment to protect Americans. Instead, they're giving Ukraine soon to expire arsenals to replenish American stockpiles....saving the U.S. disposal fees and allowing Russia to have the upper hand. That doesn't seem very profitable to me. More like, breaking even.

Because sending American troops would create a backlash --- in America.

If you don't understand that this is all about the military contractors, then you know nothing about the world and what happens in it and who's doing it. It's all about military contractors' profits -- that's why we blow up the world on a regular basis.

And your receptiveness to propaganda about "soon to expire arsenals to replenish American stockpiles....saving the U.S. disposal fees" is adorable.

 

[Angela Channing]

You can "not give a crap about US military contractors" all you choose, but that's who's running the show -- as always.

Should all Ukranians die on a matter of principle, in a war Russia was never going to lose?

Do you think Ukrainians give a crap about US military contractors? Do you really think they aren't fighting for their freedom but are fighting to support US military contractors. This is deluded.

Ukrainians should decide if and when they want to stop fighting, not Putin and his puppet, Donald Trump.

 

[Frank Underwood]

Ukraine is fighting Russia, but the US wants to prolong the war so they can continue supplying Ukraine with weapons to benefit the military industrial complex.

Trump can't dictate what Ukraine does, but he can end our involvement.

The establishment tools at CNN and MSNBC are flat out admitting that the money spent on the Ukraine War is being paid to US defense contractors.

What's funny is they're saying this as if it's a good thing, and they believe it should incentivize Americans to be for the war. In reality, it exposes the scam.

Retired Admiral James Stavridis said it's about " making our defense industrial base stronger while Russia gets weaker." In other words, the US is fighting a proxy war.

CNN ADMITS Ukraine War Is All About MONEY!

 

[Laurie!]

Because sending American troops would create a backlash --- in America.

So how about better weapons/planes/tanks, without limitations on how Ukraine uses them? That would also fit the goal of the "military industrial complex".

If you don't understand that this is all about the military contractors, then you know nothing about the world and what happens in it and who's doing it. It's all about military contractors' profits -- that's why we blow up the world on a regular basis.

So is it about control of oil/critical minerals or is it about military contractors this decade? I can't keep up.

And your receptiveness to propaganda about "soon to expire arsenals to replenish American stockpiles....saving the U.S. disposal fees" is adorable.

So they're not replenishing what they "give away"? Bombs don't expire?? They don't replace tanks and rocket launchers, missile defense systems and drones with updated technology on the regular?? So you can dispose of these things for free??? Who knew?

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Do you think Ukrainians give a crap about US military contractors? Do you really think they aren't fighting for their freedom but are fighting to support US military contractors. This is deluded.

Ukrainians should decide if and when they want to stop fighting, not Putin and his puppet, Donald Trump.

No one's asking the Ukrainians about anything -- they're just killing them. "Deluded" is not understanding that. And thinking that another million Ukrainian deaths is somehow acceptable.

And why would "Putin puppets" want less death in Ukraine??

So is it about control of oil/critical minerals or is it about military contractors this decade? I can't keep up.

Indeed, you can't. Of course, it's about both. And Blackrock is in the process of buying up war-torn land in both Gaza and Ukraine.

Or do you think greed in providing military hardware goes away after a war is over?

I think you're both capable of grasping that, but you realize you're not "winning" the argument, so your responses become increasingly silly.

 

[Laurie!]

I think you're both capable of grasping that, but you realize you're not "winning" the argument, so your responses become increasingly silly.

I'm fully aware of greed and know the U.S. in particular has big plans for Gaza and Ukraine that ignores the will of the people. What you seem incapable of grasping is that laying down weapons and waving a surrender flag only enriches, emboldens and gives those powers exactly what they want. Only to turn around, count their money and choose some other country to slaughter civilians in.

So your argument about saving lives if Ukraine just signs a Russia controlled peace "deal" is what's silly.

What's also silly is Americans trying to show some semblance of empathy for human life or moral high ground in the world. Nearly every "success" the U.S. has had in the world, involved war and death of innocents, without peaceful resolution in the name of democracy. Yet, seem to preach to everyone else to just accept our fate to save our lives. Sounds a little like blackmail to me. No matter how well intended some may think they're being.

 

[Gabriel Maxwell]

Only Ukrainian people get to decide when the war ends.

The GDP of Ukraine is only $180 billion, which allows for a $5 billion military budget. Its current annual spending on military equipment is however more in the 40 billion range and rising. Given the scale of its military needs (not to mention humanitarian aid or damage caused doubling these figures), Ukraine is therefore highly dependent on Western help.

The combined budget of 32 NATO countries is close to $1.5 trillion, though less than 0.5 comes from 31 of them, whereas the United States accounts for almost 1 trillion (since its GDP is about 30 trillion — plus it pays a greater percentage than almost every other country, a sore point for Trump). So, it is more accurate to say the United States as the principal spender of NATO mostly gets to decide how long the war lasts.

As I said, the battle lines have barely changed in the past 3 years, except the Russians recently scoring another 1% of Ukrainian territory on top of the 18-19 they secured back in 2022. There has been no indication the Ukrainians are able push the Russians out.

In fact, just this weekend the Russians pushed the Ukrainians out of a small portion of Russian territory that the Ukrainians occupied last year in an attempt to use it as a bargaining chip in future negotiations. Forbes reports, while retreating, the Ukrainians were forced to leave behind some of the best weapons donated by the US, now seized by the Russians.

A prolonged war has so far only benefited Putin and we haven’t seen evidence to the contrary that the more a peace agreement is delayed, the more land concessions Ukraine will ultimately have to make. Not to mention more Ukrainians will have died and more Western taxpayers’ money will have been wasted.

Obviously, the longer the war, the greater the cost also to Russia in terms of casualties, economic sanctions, and international isolation. Putin’s long-term strategy seems focused on exhausting Ukraine and undermining Western resolve, but the balance of power could shift negatively for him as the war progresses.

He has however shifted Russian economy to Asian markets which seem to be happy to buy from him. Not to mention the EU continues to buy Russian fossil fuels and will not be phasing them out till 2027 at the earliest. And Europe has also been buying Indian oil, refined from Russian crude. So, the EU taxpayers’ money continues to directly or indirectly line Russian pockets and finance both sides in the never-ending conflict.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

What's also silly is Americans trying to show some semblance of empathy for human life or moral high ground in the world. Nearly every "success" the U.S. has had in the world, involved war and death of innocents, without peaceful resolution in the name of democracy. Yet, seem to preach to everyone else to just accept our fate to save our lives. Sounds a little like blackmail to me. No matter how well intended some may think they're being.

Your grasp of the history seems pretty accurate. Yet you side with the American killers, and not the (powerless) Americans who say, "Gee, let's not do that anymore."

 

[Frank Underwood]

Indeed, you can't. Of course, it's about both. And Blackrock is in the process of buying up war-torn land in both Gaza and Ukraine.

Or do you think greed in providing military hardware goes away after a war is over?

Yes. The US sunk hundreds of billions in weaponry during the war, and now we expect to be "paid back" in minerals and lucrative redevelopment deals.

Trump took a lot of flak for saying we were in Iraq to steal the oil. However, Neera Tanden, a former adviser to Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden, was caught in a leaked email saying the same thing about Libya in 2011. We were bombing Libya at the time when Obama was President and Hillary Clinton was Secretary of State. As it turns out, both parties serve the military industrial complex. They spend billions on weaponry during the war, and then we help ourselves to the resources of the countries we're bombing.

Your grasp of the history seems pretty accurate. Yet you side with the American killers, and not the (powerless) Americans who say, "Gee, let's not do that anymore."

Yes, the American government's actions rarely align with the desires of the American public. Not every American is on board with our government's imperialist agenda.

I thought it was empathetic to not want Ukrainians to die, but apparently, it's only a "semblance" of empathy compared to wanting them to fight and die for eternity.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

I thought it was empathetic to not want Ukrainians to die, but apparently, it's only a "semblance" of empathy compared to wanting them to fight and die for eternity.

Yes. And for a war Russia didn't particularly want --- and is never going to lose.

But what's another one million -- two, three ... ten -- innocent Ukrainians dead? Especially when the corporations have their bloated coffers to continue over-filling...

 

[Angela Channing]

And for a war Russia didn't particularly want --- and is never going to lose.

If Russia didn't want this war, why the hell did they start it by invading Ukraine?

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

If Russia didn't want this war, why the hell did they start it by invading Ukraine?

So you know literally nothing about the conflict. And we just keep killing Ukrainians due to your (selective) lack of an attention span.

 

[Angela Channing]

So you know literally nothing about the conflict. And we just keep killing Ukrainians due to your (selective) lack of an attention span.

Putin invaded Ukraine - fact.
Putin didn't want this war - delusion.

If you don't want war, don't illegally invade another country. This isn't complicated stuff.

 

[Snarky Oracle!]

Putin invaded Ukraine - fact.
Putin didn't want this war - delusion.

If you don't want war, don't illegally invade another country. This isn't complicated stuff.

It's very "complicated stuff."

 

[Frank Underwood]

Nine days before Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022, the BBC released an article in which Putin stated his demand for not going to war. Not surprisingly, he didn't want Ukraine to join NATO because he saw NATO expansion as a threat to Russia. However, NATO rejected his demand. Putin was concerned that NATO wasn't taking Russia's security concerns seriously. Considering NATO expanded after George H.W. Bush's Secretary of State promised that NATO wouldn't expand "one inch eastward," I'd say he was right.

Putin also cited what he called a "genocide" against ethnic Russians in Ukraine's Donbas region.

When asked about the prospect of war, Putin said: "Do we want this or not? Of course, not. That is exactly why we put forward proposals for a process of negotiations." Apparently, those negotiations failed. It's fair to question Putin's credibility, but there are clear provocations from the 2014 US-backed coup in Ukraine to NATO expansion that led to the invasion. That doesn't justify Putin's illegal action, but I do believe he felt threatened that The West were attempting to use NATO and Ukraine against him.

Ukraine crisis: Putin says he does not want war in Europe