Dallas Random Thought Thread

[CeeCee72]

Pam was often harsh to and about her family - except for Rebecca - which was always odd to me since Rebecca is the one who abandoned her with an alcoholic man that wasn't even her father.

Sometimes, it seemed as if Pam had an even lower opinion of Digger and Cliff than JR did.

 

[LMLDallas78]

It seems Pam changed her mind often about her childhood to suit her present situation at any given time.

Early Pam seemed to have a happy upbringing which would later change. She later became upset that Rebecca could not remember when she first started walking and often put Digger down as mentioned in previous posts.

It's questionable if Digger was indeed a good Dad, but Rebecca wasn't even around long enough to call herself a decent Mother.

I always thought Pam appeared a little too posh to be a poor Barnes when Bobby first took her home to Southfork.

 

[DallasFanForever]

"Digger was a loser and I know you're a better man than him.

Which, in effect, made it sound like she was indirectly calling Cliff a loser also. The guy just attempted to kill himself so Pam should’ve lightened up a little. Sometimes I felt she could be a little too rough on him. I’m not saying he didn’t deserve it at times but this really wasn’t one of them. She came off as too harsh here but perhaps she felt he needed some tough love. Maybe that was just her way of dealing with what he had tried to do.

 

[Billy Wall]

Which, in effect, made it sound like she was indirectly calling Cliff a loser also. The guy just attempted to kill himself so Pam should’ve lightened up a little. Sometimes I felt she could be a little too rough on him. I’m not saying he didn’t deserve it at times but this really wasn’t one of them. She came off as too harsh here but perhaps she felt he needed some tough love. Maybe that was just her way of dealing with what he had tried to do.

Cliff was starting to recover and unlike Rebecca and Afton, Pam saw that Cliff was just throwing a pitty party for himself.

 

[DallasFanForever]

Cliff was starting to recover and unlike Rebecca and Afton, Pam saw that Cliff was just throwing a pitty party for himself.

Yes, well that’s classic Cliff. Pam had seen that too many times to feel sorry for him I guess. I just thought she could’ve been a little more sympathetic perhaps.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

I remember a discussion years ago about Bobby and Cliff being about the same age which seems unrealistic.

I just saw an episodic of when Cliff was in the hospital after his suicide attempt.

I really didn't like what Pam said to Cliff.

"Digger was a loser and I know you're a better man than him."

Digger might have had his faults, but that was low and pretty harsh for the man who you considered your father all your life.

What Pam said was cruel, especially at that time.

There is a difference between tough love and a lack of empathy. Cliff loved Digger no matter what, and Digger is the man who
was a father to Pam, even with his faults.

It always astounds me that Pam is held in such high regard, when she could be as unfeeling, and avaricious as the rest of Ewings, along with being so self-righteous and hypocritical

 

[LMLDallas78]

I do wonder sometimes about everyone's reaction to Cliff's suicide attempt. I don't believe anyone's feelings were completely genuine.

One of the first things Rebecca did was show up at Southfork for a showdown with Miss Ellie, something I think she enjoyed too much, threatening that she'll break the Ewings and has the money and power to do it.

I think Afton loved Cliff, but that's questionable when earlier on she had drugged him so JR could get the evidence he needed.
She also protested to stand by her man, but was obviously jealous of how he felt about Sue Ellen. Maybe winning THAT contest meant more to her than Cliff actually did.

Sue Ellen rushed to Cliff's hospital bedside on hearing the news from Rebecca's conversation with Miss Ellie. I hope Sue Ellen's feelings were genuine or did they just stem from sheer guilt?
Cliff had let her down badly by asking to borrow money when he found out how rich she had become.

Pam's reaction has already been mentioned in previous posts. She seemed very hard faced towards her brother.

She dismissed everything he said. She may not have wanted to hear him say Sue Ellen was all he had, but that's how he felt at that moment. Pam needed to show more compassion and understanding.

 

[Jock Ewing Fan]

I do wonder sometimes about everyone's reaction to Cliff's suicide attempt. I don't believe anyone's feelings were completely genuine.

One of the first things Rebecca did was show up at Southfork for a showdown with Miss Ellie, something I think she enjoyed too much, threatening that she'll break the Ewings and has the money and power to do it.

I think Afton loved Cliff, but that's questionable when earlier on she had drugged him so JR could get the evidence he needed.
She also protested to stand by her man, but was obviously jealous of how he felt about Sue Ellen. Maybe winning THAT contest meant more to her than Cliff actually did.

Sue Ellen rushed to Cliff's hospital bedside on hearing the news from Rebecca's conversation with Miss Ellie. I hope Sue Ellen's feelings were genuine or did they just stem from sheer guilt?
Cliff had let her down badly by asking to borrow money when he found out how rich she had become.

Pam's reaction has already been mentioned in previous posts. She seemed very hard faced towards her brother.

She dismissed everything he said. She may not have wanted to hear him say Sue Ellen was all he had, but that's how he felt at that moment. Pam needed to show more compassion and understanding.

I would say that prior to seasons 13 and 14. Cliff was a well written character who could display many different traits.
Yes he could be self -centered (no more than Pam, who seems to get a pass on this), whiny, obsessed with the Ewings,indifferent to the consequences of his actions, sometimes downright deceitful,
but he could also be introspective, empathetic (Dandy Dandridge), even courageous in helping the Ewings get Bobby back safe, supportive when he helped Bobby and Pam when their marriage was threatened by Pam's first husband, and he loved Digger and Pam.
It was kind of him to give Digger's letters to Miss Ellie
Even in Season 14, when he could have gained revenge on JR, he told the truth.

Cliff could be many shades of good and not so good, and Ken Kercheval played him with great skill
It is a shame that new Dallas did such a bad job with Cliff's character
Like JR, he wanted his Father to be proud of him.

 

[LMLDallas78]

Cliff was a well written character who could display many different traits.

Yes he was and yes he could. Although Cliff was one of the biggest losers, he could also convey empathy and emotion alongside his obsessional behaviour.

Pam, who seems to get a pass on this

Well, let's be honest, Pam got a pass on umm..... everything.

helping the Ewings get Bobby back safe

Wasn't Cliff great in that? How he had to work with people he hated to rescue a man he resented for his sister.

supportive when he helped Bobby and Pam

Great here too. We really saw how diverse Cliff's character could be in those early episodes.

Ken Kercheval played him with great skill

Absolutely he did. We knew Cliff would always get beaten and got frustrated when he always lost, but what a brilliant character.

Hated what they made him in TNT Dallas.

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

I got the feeling Sue Ellen and Bobby were fairly close in age.
Sue Ellen was meant to be 31 when the show started in 1978 (Sue Ellen was 20 in 1967 when she was crowned Miss Texas). Sue Ellen was characterised as depressed and aged out of being fun, which was supposed to contrast with the youthful demeanour of Bobby and Pam.
JR was 8 years Sue Ellen's senior.
Bobby's dream headstone indicates he was born in 1949.

That means nothing because it also says he died in 1985!

But do you think this can be trusted? I mean, Pam also dreamt up non-existing emerald diggers, an entire Bond movie, resurrected dead people, made herself a partner in Ewing Oil, had Cliff seriously in love with someone other than himself and had J.R. and Sue Ellen reconcile.

Not questioning what you’re saying of course but forgive me for being a little apprehensive about believing in Pam’s dreams.

Well she did dream about Wes Parmalee only he called himself Ben Stivers in her dream.

She must've been starting to get clairvoyant. Did anything else apart from Ben come true in season ten when the timeline was reset as a result of the dream?

 

[DallasFanForever]

Well she did dream about Wes Parmalee only he called himself Ben Stivers in her dream.

She must've been starting to get clairvoyant. Did anything else apart from Ben come true in season ten when the timeline was reset as a result of the dream?

Odd that once she saw Wes she didn’t recognize him from her dream, even under a different name. She did remember a lot of details from her dream as she conveyed them to Bobby the next morning. I guess we’re supposed to assume that like most people we only remember certain aspects of our dreams.

After all, she did technically dream almost 31 hours worth of stuff so we really should cut her a little slack for not remembering everything.

 

[Toni]

Well she did dream about Wes Parmalee only he called himself Ben Stivers in her dream.

She must've been starting to get clairvoyant. Did anything else apart from Ben come true in season ten when the timeline was reset as a result of the dream?

Yes: Jamie´s death, Sue Ellen getting sober and letting John Ross live with J.R., JR leaving The Tramp, and a few other minor things (see above).

From my site:

DREAM AND REALITY

"I had a nightmare. A terrible nightmare. I dreamed that you were here, and you were leaving. And KATHERINE was in her car, and she was waiting, and when we started to leave, she tried to run me down but you pushed me out of the way. And then she hit you and she crashed into a truck, and she was killed. And then we took you to the hospital, and you died! There was so much more. And, BOBBY, it seemed so real. There was SUE ELLEN, and there was MARK, and I was married." - PAMELA EWING, September 1986 (or was it 1985?)

Dream Season storylines that were discarded: The whole story about ANGELICA NERO and the MARINOS shipping company. JACK and JENNA´s blossoming romance. DONNA´s abortion and the KREBBSES´ plot related to the children suffering Down Syndrom. SUE ELLEN´s stay at the sanitarium and her new job at GRAISON RESEARCH. The whole story including MATT CANTRELL and the Colombian emerald mine. The return of SUE ELLEN´s mother PATRICIA. SUE ELLEN´s death caused by the blast of a bomb at EWING OIL. PAM working shoulder to shoulder with J.R. at EWING OIL.

Latter Season 7 storylines that were discarded: The return of DUSTY to SUE ELLEN´s life, though a couple of scenes with JARED MARTIN did NOT belong to the dream itself. The menace of vengeful KATHERINE, even though the penultimate episode had finished with a rear shot of hers, and on "Swan Song" she had also appeared before the dream began.

Dream Season storylines that were recycled: The return of the elderly cowboy who seems to be presumably late JOCK EWING (only his name changed from BEN STIVERS to WES PARMALEE). The horse cutting business of CLAYTON and RAY. JAMIE EWING´s death. PAM seeing one of the men in her life "come back to life". SUE ELLEN´s and MANDY's verbal confrontations. J.R. and CLIFF longing to get JACK´s EWING OIL share. J.R. and MANDY breaking up, and her leaving Dallas. J.R. jeopardizing his life to save another person (JACK on the Dream Season, JOHN ROSS on S. 9). EWING OIL goes through serious trouble (on S. 8, caused by MARINOS, in S. 9, caused by WESTSTAR).

Latter Season 7 storylines/scenes that were recycled: PAM kisses BOBBY goodbye "the morning after" (see pics above). RAY and DONNA´s arguments about their marriage and the baby they are expecting. CLIFF disdaining JAMIE after the court sentence. SUE ELLEN drinking (only on the first two episodes).

www.supersoaps.org

 

[LMLDallas78]

her new job at GRAISON RESEARCH.

Really loved that storyline, Sue Ellen's friendship with Mark (she COULD be friends with a man!) And blossoming relationship with the lovely DR Jerry Kenderson.

including MATT CANTRELL

Well I'm thankful for that!

The return of SUE ELLEN´s mother PATRICIA. SUE ELLEN´s death

Wasted opportunity of having Patricia back.

Can't even type those words, I tell myself Sue Ellen would have been injured, nothing more!

The whole story about ANGELICA NERO

Not a popular story, but Barbara Carrera was wonderful as Angelica, could have beenvso much better.

 

[DallasFanForever]

Really loved that storyline, Sue Ellen's friendship with Mark (she COULD be friends with a man!

I really liked their friendship this season. Perhaps a missed opportunity though in the respect that having Pam and Sue Ellen fight over Mark could’ve been a good storyline. It would’ve driven J.R. mad as well.

Not a popular story, but Barbara Carrera was wonderful as Angelica, could have beenvso much better.

I know the character was over the top and was probably better suited for Dynasty at that time but I was an Angelica fan myself. Perhaps with a better storyline than the boring Marinos Shipping one she could’ve been a better fit in Dallas.

 

[LMLDallas78]

Perhaps a missed opportunity though in the respect that having Pam and Sue Ellen fight over Mark

Oh I hadn't even thought about that! No, I really liked the friendship between Mark and Sue Ellen and how Pam had suggested her for the role.

All credit to Pam there. Sue Ellen doing something like that was far more believable than the knickers business.

I really missed Jerry Kenderson, now that was a sweet romance blooming there and then Pam woke up.

I know the character was over the top

Yes unfortunately that's how they made her become.
Another star that had plenty of media hype before her arrival and rumours of all sorts happening.
Such a shame. As you say with a better storyline instead of what we got, Angelica could have been a more credible character.

 

[DallasFanForever]

I really liked the friendship between Mark and Sue Ellen and how Pam had suggested her for the role.

Mark and Sue Ellen as friends seemed like a natural fit. Mark seemed to be a very good friend to have overall. I always enjoyed his friendship with Jerry also. Even Mark and Jenna had a very good scene at Southfork that season when he’s trying to convince her to get some help and reminds her that they’re both dealing with the same ghost (Bobby). Then there’s the scene at the auction when he asks her to dance but she can’t because she just isn’t ready to even dance with anyone yet. John seemed to have good chemistry with a lot of the other actors and actresses.

 

[LMLDallas78]

Mark and Sue Ellen as friends seemed like a natural fit. Mark seemed to be a very good friend to have overall. I always enjoyed his friendship with Jerry also. Even Mark and Jenna had a very good scene at Southfork that season when he’s trying to convince her to get some help and reminds her that they’re both dealing with the same ghost (Bobby). Then there’s the scene at the auction when he asks her to dance but she can’t because she just isn’t ready to even dance with anyone yet. John seemed to have good chemistry with a lot of the other actors and actresses.

It took me some time to warm to Mark, not sure why. I can't think of anything specific and just can't put my finger on it.

Maybe he seemed, dare I say, too nice? I'm always suspicious of people who appear too nice.
But I did warm to him and like him a little bit more everytime I rewatch.

He seemed even nicer in the dream season, but then everyone was nice in that season.

 

[Luke_Krebbs_Ewing]

It took me some time to warm to Mark, not sure why. I can't think of anything specific and just can't put my finger on it.

Maybe he seemed, dare I say, too nice? I'm always suspicious of people who appear too nice.
But I did warm to him and like him a little bit more everytime I rewatch.

He seemed even nicer in the dream season, but then everyone was nice in that season.

I'm usually suspicious of people who appear too nice as well as nine times out of ten they're two faced. Not so in the case of Mark Graison he was completely genuine. John Beck played him really well. I'm glad I took a chance last year and bought a signed photo of him off eBay.

 

[Seaviewer]

Can't even type those words, I tell myself Sue Ellen would have been injured, nothing more!

It's been said she would have been blinded. Not sure that information comes from.

 

[Taylor Bennett Jr.]

It's been said she would have been blinded. Not sure that information comes from.

as we saw with Bobby a couple of years earlier, that means she would have had to stay in the hospital with huge sunglasses (and inexplicably perfectly-styled hair) for a handful of episodes, survive a jealous semi-in-law’s murder attempt, then magically recover her eyesight and be 100% healed, never to mention the ordeal again.