Fixing the "dream" solution

didn’t they plan out the main storylines of the upcoming year during the break between seasons, i.e. the ‘bible’? I’d think changing their minds about Wes being Jock due to fan feedback would have really had them scrambling to rethink the second half of the season.
 

Luke_Krebbs_Ewing

Telly Talk Champion
Making season nine a dream wasn't the main problem it was the explanation of it.

It maybe should've been Bobby's nightmare when he was in a coma.

That they made it Pam's dream was just a cop out. I'm really not surprised a fed up Victoria Principal left the show the following year. :(
 

Jock's Ghost

Telly Talk Well-Known Member
I just read Barbara Curan's book.
The last episode of the dream season was shot in February '86. At the same time Hagman had a top secret dinner with Duffy to get him back to the series. In March Hagman announced to the press that Katzman would be back. In April Lorimar announced that Capice was leaving and Katzman getting back in charge.

On April 9, 1986 CBS announced that Duffy was returning to the cast. "Blast from the past" aired on May 16.

So there was plenty time to change/redirect/re-shoot some parts.

Duffy agreed to return for seasons 9-11 (WB 10-12) for a 35,000$ raise per episode to 75,000$ per episode, a $1 million signing bonus, the ability to direct three episodes per season And control over the storyline resurrecting Bobby.

I always assumed the dream explanation was Katzman's idea because he didn't want to continue Capice's storylines.
Maybe I blamed the wrong one.
Actually the stupid dream idea came from Duffy's late wife.
 

Rove

Telly Talk Warrior
That they made it Pam's dream was just a cop out. I'm really not surprised a fed up Victoria Principal left the show the following year.
The conspiracist in me believes placing the dream on Pam was a vengeful act against Victoria for her hinting she was leaving Dallas. The boys club ensured that. Don't worry though because...

...on the night of April 2, 2028, people around the world will hear that familiar opening theme music followed closely by Pam waking up. Sitting beside her hospital bed is an adult Christopher.

Pam asks for Bobby but Christopher explains he died on May 17, 1985 and that Katherine was responsible. A visibly upset Pam tells Christopher everything seemed so real. Christopher explains he has been visiting the hospital everyday and talking to her about the events of the day since she slipped into a coma after receiving shocking news. When Pam inquires how this came about it's at this very point everything comes into focus...


​
 

the-lost-son

Telly Talk Well-Known Member
The dream was put in place to bring Patrick back - not to erase anything per say.
Right. This was an easy and most importantly a quick way to continue.

Obviously there was no long-term planning anymore. For any alternative solutions you should have changed/added scenes in "blast from the past".

You can't have in the season opener:
- SueEllen in hospital
- Jamie dead
- Ben Stivers turn out to be Jock

and Bobby waking up in hospital (or sth. like that).
 

Sarah

Moderator Emerita
Right. This was an easy and most importantly a quick way to continue.

Obviously there was no long-term planning anymore. For any alternative solutions you should have changed/added scenes in "blast from the past".

You can't have in the season opener:
- SueEllen in hospital
- Jamie dead
- Ben Stivers turn out to be Jock

and Bobby waking up in hospital (or sth. like that).
Yes, I mean I would have kept JR and Sue Ellen together. Pam woke up and I had to endure even more Mandy Winger which I could have done without.

There were also those hints in the dream that Ben was going to turn out to be someone else - so that storyline involving Wes/would-be-Jock crossed over.
 

the-lost-son

Telly Talk Well-Known Member
Yes, I mean I would have kept JR and Sue Ellen together. Pam woke up and I had to endure even more Mandy Winger which I could have done without.

There were also those hints in the dream that Ben was going to turn out to be someone else - so that storyline involving Wes/would-be-Jock crossed over.
The writing for season 9 (DVD10) was still strong. If they had gotten much more time I'm sure we would have gotten golden TV moments.

I liked PD back, but it was too sudden. One year earlier we suspected Katherine to be the one throwing tomoatoe juice, but to watch it materialize was fun.
Some could and should have been done for Bobby' s return, several hints in the episodes prior.

If you adjust the last 4 episodes you can drop storylines you're not willing to pursue in the following season (Tony, Mark Graison's past). Why blow up SueEllen if it's clear it's a dream in the next scene?

I'm sure they could have figured out sth. to keep the integrity of the show.
Everything happened in a rush, it was a spontaneous decision to make it a dream, it was a spontaneous decision to make it Pam's dream.

To decide (no later than April '86) spontaneously to get Bobby in the shower you were writing yourself in a corner.
 

Jock's Ghost

Telly Talk Well-Known Member
Duffy's wife certainly suggested it but it was really Leonard Katzman who thought of making it a dream because he wanted to erase the previous season as he was mostly off the show that year. :(
And ruined the show in the process. There was no saving needed....that infuriates me to read that still. Phillip Capice was a great showrunner and his work proves it. If Katzman thought his final 5 years of Dallas were good, hes full of poop. The show was so awful after Bobbyreturned... one would think he could have returned to the challenge of keeping Bobby dead or reviving him in a non-stupid, insulting way. All he had to do was come back from the finale of S9 and be creative.....but no..... idiot.
 

Sarah

Moderator Emerita
And ruined the show in the process. There was no saving needed....that infuriates me to read that still. Phillip Capice was a great showrunner and his work proves it. If Katzman thought his final 5 years of Dallas were good, hes full of poop. The show was so awful after Bobbyreturned... one would think he could have returned to the challenge of keeping Bobby dead or reviving him in a non-stupid, insulting way. All he had to do was come back from the finale of S9 and be creative.....but no..... idiot.
But how? How else to bring Bobby back -
Unless the hospital pronounced him too soon?
 

Luke_Krebbs_Ewing

Telly Talk Champion
And ruined the show in the process. There was no saving needed....that infuriates me to read that still. Phillip Capice was a great showrunner and his work proves it. If Katzman thought his final 5 years of Dallas were good, hes full of poop. The show was so awful after Bobbyreturned... one would think he could have returned to the challenge of keeping Bobby dead or reviving him in a non-stupid, insulting way. All he had to do was come back from the finale of S9 and be creative.....but no..... idiot.

He took the easiest way out unfortunately.

Larry Hagman wanted both Duffy & Katzman back but he also wanted Phil Capice gone. He got his wish but ultimately those decisions cost Dallas it's popularity long term.

But how? How else to bring Bobby back -
Unless the hospital pronounced him too soon?

The med team could've rushed in and worked CPR on him to revive him. There was still time to do that.

The other idea which is popular now is making it Bobby's dream whilst he was in a coma. That would certainly have worked.

The dream scenario was just the quickest way of explaining Bobby's resurrection. It certainly wasn't the best way of making it Pam's dream. Sad with hindsight that that one little scene of Duffy in the shower effectively ruined the show's long term future. :(
 

Sarah

Moderator Emerita
He took the easiest way out unfortunately.

Larry Hagman wanted both Duffy & Katzman back but he also wanted Phil Capice gone. He got his wish but ultimately those decisions cost Dallas it's popularity long term.



The med team could've rushed in and worked CPR on him to revive him. There was still time to do that.

The other idea which is popular now is making it Bobby's dream whilst he was in a coma. That would certainly have worked.

The dream scenario was just the quickest way of explaining Bobby's resurrection. It certainly wasn't the best way of making it Pam's dream. Sad with hindsight that that one little scene of Duffy in the shower effectively ruined the show's long term future. :(
See I don’t think it did certainly not for die hard fans. Just accept it. Sure there were aspects I didn’t like - Sue Ellen still drinking, as I’d loved her and JR’s reconciling soooo much - but considering other shows like EastEnders have brought people back YEARS after they died I really don’t get why some think it ruined the show. At least he didn’t take off in a spaceship.

Soon as JR lost his marbles, that’s when things were, sorry about the pun, unrevivable.
 

Crimson

Telly Talk Star
There is none that makes sense really. I mean if they had done it some other way it would have ended up stretching the boundaries of what is credible. So in retrospect killing off Bobby like they did was a mistake.

I haven't read the other suggestions in this thread, but I can stop right here. Basically, this.

In past discussions, "solutions" usually involve some scenario where Bobby didn't really die or was resuscitated, before being hidden away to recuperate. It doesn't work. Hidden away for what purpose? Katherine was dead; there was no more threat to Bobby's life to warrant hiding him. Who hid him away, one of the Ewings? Then why did we see every one of them privately grieving for him? Bobby himself made plans in the event something happened to him? If he was aware his life was in danger, why was he dumb enough to stand, exposed, in a driveway in the first place?

DALLAS had done the "back from the dead" story successfully twice, with Dusty and Mark. In both cases, though, we didn't see them die; we were only told they did. We watched Bobby die. We watched the Ewings grieve and deal with Bobby's death. Any scenario where he returned would have been the hoariest kind of writing, even for a soap in the mid-80s.

After definitely killing him, if they wanted him back they either needed a wizard or to pretend it never happened.

In retrospect, I think they should have just left him dead. Yeah, DALLAS wasn't the same without him but DALLAS was barely DALLAS even with his return. The damage done to the show's credibility with any return scenario wasn't worth the payoff.
 
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Spooky Owl!

Telly Talk Supreme
In past discussions, "solutions" usually involve some scenario where Bobby didn't really die or was resuscitated, before being hidden away to recuperate. It doesn't work. Hidden away for what purpose? Katherine was dead; there was no more threat to Bobby's life to warrant hiding him.

Unless the team she'd hired to destroy Bobby and the family were unaware their anonymous client was dead, Miss Ellie cooperating with the feds.

It would only take a single episode if explained correctly.

The damage done to the show's credibility with any return scenario wasn't worth the payoff.

But we only saw one.
 

Brian Kinney

Telly Talk Addict
But how? How else to bring Bobby back -
Unless the hospital pronounced him too soon?
The dream should have started after Katherine drove him over and before he was in the hospital. Still a dream. But the dream wouldn't skip over the traumatic event itself (which explain why someone is dreaming of explosions etc.). Just the outcome of it could have been different. Restarting in the hospital with Bobby awakening from coma - with the same cast as in the death scene, except BBG instead of DR). Maybe days, weeks or months later. Accepting that some stories in the "dream season" actually happened to his surprise (Jenna and Jack getting closer, Mark's return, Angelica Nero - Jamie's death, but not Sue Ellen bombed). As a viewer I felt mostly betrayed that the car accident and his death in the hospital were erased. But I would have accepted a dream that acknowledged at least the car accident. It wouldn't have mattered if most of the stories from the dream turned out to be real. Of course they needed a writer and director to find a style for an outstanding episode, where a therapist would lead Bobby slowly to what actually happened. Everything to make it more real instead of destroying a whole year of Dallas. I don't think my idea is original because films who use the dreams routine often use the most traumatic scene that starts the cycle. Pamela though just went to bed, dreamt and woke up. That was terribly anticlimactic. My idea wouldn't save the ties to Knots Landing but could've saved Dallas's credibility a bit.
 
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Sarah

Moderator Emerita
I don’t say this lightly at all but it’s just for discussion - what would have happened had someone said no? We can’t bring Patrick back??

Dallas without Bobby permanently?
 
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